Episode 6
Dead Man Walking (Part 2): Saved...Really? Do We Really Need to Be Saved? From What?
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The podcast episode advances an ambitious thesis regarding salvation, positioning it as a grand cosmic narrative rather than a mere formulaic understanding. Pastor Ross Stackhouse initiates this dialogue by questioning the traditional interpretations of salvation that have dominated mainstream Christianity. He critiques the reductionist view that frames salvation in simplistic terms, advocating instead for a perspective that recognizes the intricate and expansive nature of God's redemptive work in the world. The discussion traverses through scriptural references, elucidating the biblical portrayal of salvation as a dynamic and profound act of love that seeks to restore all of creation. This broader viewpoint not only encompasses individual redemption but also engages with the broader cosmic struggle between light and darkness, thereby inviting listeners to envision their role within this divine narrative. Through thoughtful reflections and scriptural insights, the podcast challenges listeners to reconsider their assumptions about faith, urging them to embrace a more expansive understanding of salvation that transcends traditional boundaries and offers a richer, more fulfilling engagement with the divine.
Takeaways:
- Heaven Earth Church seeks to be a welcoming community for individuals who often feel marginalized by traditional religious institutions.
- The podcast emphasizes the importance of personal stories, illustrating how each individual's journey reflects a larger narrative of faith and divine purpose.
- Our discussions delve into the concept of salvation, exploring its profound implications on personal and communal levels, and how it shapes our understanding of existence.
- The overarching theme of this episode is the cosmic battle between light and darkness, highlighting the transformative power of God's love and glory in the world.
Links referenced in this episode:
Transcript
Welcome to Heaven Earth Church.
Speaker A:My name is Ross Stackhouse.
Speaker A:I'm the founding pastor of Heaven Earth Church.
Speaker A:From the beginning, our heart was to be a church for people who don't fit neatly into church.
Speaker A:Our heart is to meet people where they are, to learn their stories, to honor their stories.
Speaker A:Because in every human story is God's story.
Speaker A:In this podcast you'll hear more about the people who now call Heaven Earth Church home.
Speaker A:Their stories, in many cases of misfits who are discovering or rediscovering faith.
Speaker A:If you want to know more about us, you can go to heavenorthchurch.org Otherwise, we invite you now into the story.
Speaker B:Hello good people.
Speaker B:Brad Miller here, the producer of the Heaven Earth Church podcast.
Speaker B:One of the main benefits of being a part of the Heaven Earth Church community is our Sunday morning conversations taught by founding pastor Ross Stackhouse.
Speaker B:You can watch and participate in the Sunday morning conversation this Sunday morning, 9:30am Eastern Time at YouTube.com Heaven Earth Church.
Speaker B:The audio version of the Sunday morning conversation is available here on the podcast, which you can find at Apple Podcasts, Spotify and on the website, which is heavenearth church.org let's now join Pastor Ross Stackhouse and the Heaven Earth Church community for part two of the message series, Dead Men Walking.
Speaker B:The title is Saved.
Speaker B:Really?
Speaker B:Do we really need to be saved?
Speaker C:Lord, illuminate our minds, soften our hearts and ignite our spirits with your fire in a way that's authentic.
Speaker C:That help us to be more like you and more like us, the people you've created us to be.
Speaker C:In Jesus name, Amen.
Speaker C:All right, Michael, there's a picture in the sermon slides.
Speaker C:My phone isn't working again, so Michael's going to be my right hand man.
Speaker C:The other one, there's another picture.
Speaker C:There it is.
Speaker C:That is not the eye of Sauron.
Speaker C:What is that?
Speaker C:Does anyone know the Milky Way?
Speaker C:Yeah, you see that dot there that says we are here.
Speaker C:Hey, Ellis, how you doing, bud?
Speaker C:Hi, Evan.
Speaker C:Everybody look at Evan and make him feel awkward right now, okay?
Speaker C:Love you.
Speaker C:Evan.
Speaker C:Look at that picture.
Speaker C:We are here.
Speaker C:The story of the Bible, the entire like arc of the library of scriptures begins with chaos and darkness.
Speaker C:And then in a moment.
Speaker C:The Bible is not a science textbook.
Speaker C:There are parts that are meant to be more literal and historical.
Speaker C:There are more parts.
Speaker C:There are parts that are meant to be like poetry.
Speaker C:Genesis 1 is maybe some sort of a mixture.
Speaker C:I don't know.
Speaker C:All I know, it's that it's trying to testify to the reality that there is a God who speaks and things come into being.
Speaker C:And so God's holy Spirit hovers over the chaos.
Speaker C:And then God says on the very first day, let there be light.
Speaker C:And maybe when God said let there be light, that was when that big bang happened.
Speaker C:And in a billionth of a trillionth of a trillionth of a second.
Speaker C:I shared this from a couple weeks ago from the center of Astrophysics.
Speaker C:I know you guys have been hanging out a lot on that site.
Speaker C:From the Harvard and Smithsonian center of Astrophysics.
Speaker C:In a billionth of a trillionth of a trillionth of a second, the universe expanded at a rate of 10 to the 26th power.
Speaker C:Let there be light.
Speaker C:When that happened, like all of a sudden all the makings for galaxies upon galaxies upon galaxies were racing, racing, expanding at that fast rate.
Speaker C:There were all the makings for all the galaxies, all the planets, and yet there's this special one.
Speaker C:They're all special because they have God's fingerprint on them.
Speaker C:Can you go back to the picture, Michael?
Speaker C:There's this special galaxy, one amongst I don't even know how many Jamin, do you know how many galaxies are out there in the universe?
Speaker C:Nobody knows.
Speaker C:Okay, thank you.
Speaker C:See, he corroborated me.
Speaker C:That wasn't planned.
Speaker C:This is one galaxy and then within that one galaxy there's a solar system.
Speaker C:And sometime after Let there be light.
Speaker C:And there was all the makings for this.
Speaker C:Billions of years in the making.
Speaker C:There's this planet.
Speaker C:Nine planets surround the sun.
Speaker C:Only one does the sun embrace upon this one.
Speaker C:We take so much for granted.
Speaker C:There we are like from the beginning, guys.
Speaker C:God's heart was to spill out glory and light to created things.
Speaker C:God was so excited to create and just share light and glory.
Speaker C:There are all these beautiful things with this light and glory.
Speaker C:God wanted to make a kingdom of light and glory.
Speaker C:And yet there's this like special place we call earth.
Speaker C:And within Earth there are these special beings.
Speaker C:That's you.
Speaker C:Go to Psalm 8.
Speaker C:Mikey the Psalmist was like was having a hard time reckoning with this.
Speaker C:I hope I put it in there, Michael.
Speaker C:I did.
Speaker C:Sweet Lord, our Lord, how majestic is your name.
Speaker C:Throughout the earth you made your glory higher than the heaven.
Speaker C:Keep going, Michael.
Speaker C:From the mouths of nursing babies you've laid a strong foundation because your foes in order to stop vengeful enemies.
Speaker C:When I look up at your skies.
Speaker C:Alright, back to the scripture, Michael.
Speaker C:He's crushing it back there.
Speaker C:By the way, at what your fingers made the moon and the stars that you set firmly in place.
Speaker C:What are Human beings that you think about them.
Speaker C:What are human beings that you pay attention to them and yet you've made them only slightly less than divine, crowning them with glory and grandeur.
Speaker C:You let them rule over your handiwork, putting everything under their feet, all sheep and all cattle, the wild animals too.
Speaker C:The birds in the sky, the fish of the ocean, everything that travels the pathways of the sea.
Speaker C:Lord our Lord, how majestic is your name throughout the earth.
Speaker C:I want to tell you that I have been traveling through the library of scriptures for the last several weeks, preparing for this series.
Speaker C:Now, you can throw that other picture up there, Michael, not the Milky Way galaxy.
Speaker C:We're in a series called Dead Man Why Jesus Died and why It Still Matters for Ordinary People.
Speaker C:And we've been.
Speaker C:We're asking questions like the ones, the easy questions you asked last week.
Speaker C:We're going to tackle in this series.
Speaker C:I wrote them all down.
Speaker C:I'm trying to pair them with each week.
Speaker C:But I've been exploring this question in the New Testament and really throughout the entire Bible.
Speaker C:I promised I'd share it with you.
Speaker C:I can.
Speaker C:I'll share you all my preparations.
Speaker C:So if you want to get in the weeds with me, you can.
Speaker C:But here is what I have discovered when I look at this theme, the theme of a word we're going to look at today.
Speaker C:This word salvation.
Speaker C:Have you heard of it?
Speaker C:Jesus name when he's born.
Speaker C:Can you go to Matthew 1:21, Michael?
Speaker C:We said it last week, she will give birth to a son and you will call him Jesus because he will save his people from his sins.
Speaker C:Jesus name means God saves or he saves.
Speaker C:So what we're asking in this series is like, Jesus saves us.
Speaker C:How?
Speaker C:Why?
Speaker C:Saves us from what?
Speaker C:And as some people ask, why does he have to die to do it?
Speaker C:Why is blood and death the mechanism?
Speaker C:What's this salvation about?
Speaker C:We're going to do that this series and I hope that by the time you get to Easter, you experience something that I've discovered in all my studies.
Speaker C:And here's my thesis for this series.
Speaker C:I hope that doesn't give you trigger or anything from school time.
Speaker C:It's like the one thing I discovered.
Speaker C:This salvation story is so much bigger, so much brighter, more beautiful, mysterious and freeing than we've ever heard.
Speaker C:It is so big, you guys.
Speaker C:It's like galactic cosmic big.
Speaker C:And it matters to every ordinary person who's ever lived on Earth.
Speaker C:I want to kick off, like helping you to think about this big concept of salvation today.
Speaker C:But before we go forward, I'm going to ask you a question when you hear.
Speaker C:So clear your mind for a minute.
Speaker C:Take a breath.
Speaker C:Try to be present.
Speaker C:Clear your thoughts.
Speaker C:Now I'm going to say a word and I want you to listen to the very first thoughts and feelings you have.
Speaker C:As I say it.
Speaker C:Salvation.
Speaker C:What thoughts or feelings came up for you online?
Speaker C:We need it from you too.
Speaker C:Jesus.
Speaker C:Safe.
Speaker C:Okay.
Speaker C:Image of a cross with a light behind it.
Speaker C:What thoughts or feelings or words?
Speaker C:Debbie.
Speaker C:New beginning.
Speaker C:Freedom.
Speaker C:Grace.
Speaker C:What words?
Speaker C:Thoughts.
Speaker C:Feelings.
Speaker C:Come to your mind when you hear this.
Speaker C:Salvation.
Speaker C:Come.
Speaker C:It was for me.
Speaker C:Okay.
Speaker C:Choice.
Speaker C:Somebody asked.
Speaker C:One of our questions that we'll get to next week is I've heard this story that it's all about who Jesus is in his life and what he does that saves us.
Speaker C:And yet if I don't accept him, I'm not saved.
Speaker C:Help me understand that.
Speaker C:Ross, the breakdown there.
Speaker C:We'll get to that next week.
Speaker C:Salvation.
Speaker C:Thoughts.
Speaker C:Feelings.
Speaker C:Anybody have more challenging thoughts?
Speaker C:Feelings?
Speaker C:Fear for those who may not know salvation.
Speaker C:No longer bound by the things of this earth.
Speaker C:Okay.
Speaker C:Sometimes I don't think it has any meaning.
Speaker C:Thank you, Charles.
Speaker C:Can you say more about that, Charles?
Speaker C:What you mean?
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker C:Disappointment from an old hat standpoint.
Speaker C:Like the same old, same old old story.
Speaker C:Worn out story.
Speaker C:Angela.
Speaker C:You thought of hell.
Speaker C:Jason.
Speaker C:Me too.
Speaker C:Three, four, five.
Speaker C:Oh.
Speaker C:If you died tonight, do you know where you'd spend eternity?
Speaker C:Old Timothy.
Speaker C:Evangelism.
Speaker C:Nick.
Speaker C:Yes.
Speaker C:You can get really academic with it and study it from like an intellectual perspective and try to come up with a meaning.
Speaker C:But do you actually feel it?
Speaker C:Is it something that matters to you?
Speaker C:I saw a hand right here.
Speaker C:Say it again.
Speaker C:Take something old and make it new.
Speaker C:We're gonna segue right on that point.
Speaker C:Here's what I want to do today.
Speaker C:I want to show you.
Speaker C:I admitted something to Ellie today.
Speaker C:I feel what I'm going to say feels a little bit arrogant.
Speaker C:Here's why.
Speaker C:When I studied all this stuff, I feel like what I'm going to say today, like, hasn't been represented well, maybe hasn't even, like, been out there.
Speaker C:I know it has, but I feel like I've come upon something in the scriptures that is, like.
Speaker C:It helped me to, like, see it not just from an academic standpoint, but to like, get in touch with God's.
Speaker C:How big and bright and beautiful and mysterious and freeing salvation is in a way that actually has meaning in a way that matters to me and to you.
Speaker C:I'm with Charles.
Speaker C:It made me feel more disappointed in my prior church experience.
Speaker C:Why isn't this grandness, this beauty, this brightness.
Speaker C:Why hasn't it been shared?
Speaker C:I'll tell you my theory why.
Speaker C:And it does get academic for a minute, so stay with me, please.
Speaker C:Some of you are like, I hate history so much.
Speaker C:Don't go there.
Speaker C:But if we do not study our history, what's the phrase say?
Speaker C:We're bound to repeat it.
Speaker C:Our country, the United States, was founded in the wake of a movement called the Enlightenment.
Speaker C:I would wager that we didn't become enlightened from gifted us with many good things.
Speaker C:Rational thinking, like the appreciation for, like, let's find the explanation for things.
Speaker C:Let's find the answers for things.
Speaker C:Let's get to the root of the causes, let's find the formulas, let's find the reasons.
Speaker C:We don't really want to deal so much in the supernatural anymore because that's led us astray.
Speaker C:One of our founding fathers came up with his own Bible, where he erased the miracles of Jesus out of it.
Speaker C:Little guy by the name of Thomas Jefferson.
Speaker C:Have you heard of him?
Speaker C:The Jeffersonian Bible just focuses on the ethics of Jesus and strips out all the supernatural.
Speaker C:And a lot of our theology, the way that we understand theology, rose up in that culture.
Speaker C:A lot of our understanding about why Jesus died and what it does for us came out of a time when we wanted to put everything into a formula that we could make sense of that was concise, clear, like two plus two equals four.
Speaker C:Like A plus B equals C.
Speaker C:Let me show you the A plus B equals C salvation story.
Speaker C:That's a little bit worn out.
Speaker C:Stay with me.
Speaker C:I'm not just going to throw out the baby with the bath water and leave you with nothing.
Speaker C:Okay?
Speaker C:The A.
Speaker C:Every single one of you is a wretched sinner.
Speaker C:You were born guilty of sin.
Speaker C:This is the formula.
Speaker C:This isn't my interpretation that we're talking about today.
Speaker C:Every one of you is a sinner.
Speaker C:All the reformers in this time, like Calvin, Luther, and then later John Wesley, were like, you think humanity's totally depraved?
Speaker C:Yep, me too.
Speaker C:High five.
Speaker C:And then Calvin was like, let's talk about predestination.
Speaker C:Wesley's like, see you later, bro.
Speaker C:Out on that.
Speaker C:Really?
Speaker C:Jacob Arminius before him?
Speaker C:Anyways, who cares about that?
Speaker C:The formula starts out with, you're all totally depraved.
Speaker C:Woo.
Speaker C:Born in original sin.
Speaker C:Exciting stuff.
Speaker C:Each one of you has been sinning your whole life.
Speaker C:Now, listen, there's truth in some of this stuff, so stay with me, okay?
Speaker C:B.
Speaker C:Wait, no, we're not to b.
Speaker C:It.
Speaker C:Sorry, we're still on A.
Speaker C:Because of your aness.
Speaker C:You're a sinner.
Speaker C:You deserve punishment for it.
Speaker C:Okay, and the just punishment for your sins is what kind of death, Melissa?
Speaker C:Fiery death.
Speaker C:Eternal torture and punishment.
Speaker C:Or to put it nicely, eternal separation from God, AKA hey, you're following with me.
Speaker C:You've heard this one.
Speaker C:Okay?
Speaker C:Old hat.
Speaker C:Okay, B.
Speaker C:Are you ready?
Speaker C:You guys could fill in B for me.
Speaker C:B is God sends the Son and he faces the consequences that you deserve on your behalf.
Speaker C:He is a substitution for your punishment.
Speaker C:He pays that consequence when he suffers and dies on the cross.
Speaker C:So that, see, if you believe in him, you shall not perish in.
Speaker C:I'm looking for a word again, but have A plus B equals C formulas.
Speaker C:How many of you, like, that has been the basic understanding of Christianity that you've had?
Speaker C:I'd love to hear a show of hands.
Speaker C:Like, this is how you basically understand what salvation is about in the past.
Speaker C:All right, what I just said, I'm not making this up.
Speaker C:That became popular in, like, the 16th century, but you would have thought that's how it's always been.
Speaker C:It rose up in a time when, like, we were trying to explain things.
Speaker C:There was a Reformation, and they were trying to, like, explain things.
Speaker C:And, like.
Speaker C:So some new denominations got started.
Speaker C:You got some Presbyterians, and then you got some Lutherans, and then you've got.
Speaker C:And then after all those you've got, you've got this kind of Presbyterian.
Speaker C:That kind of Presbyterian.
Speaker C:This kind of Presbyterian.
Speaker C:Baptist, Baptist, Baptist, Baptist, ELCA, MO Synod.
Speaker C:On and on and on and on and on.
Speaker C:We wanted a formula.
Speaker C:Hang on with me.
Speaker C:If you're like, he's doing it again.
Speaker C:Like that Sunday long ago when he had a tent thing and he said, throw the tent in the trash.
Speaker C:And I went home.
Speaker C:Like, what?
Speaker C:If you don't remember it, it was an infamous Sunday for me because I regretted some of the things I did that Sunday.
Speaker C:Anyways, thank you, sir.
Speaker C:See, I was sitting in my A, the A part of the formula.
Speaker C:So what we did was we reduced salvation to something that we could control, something that we could hold with certainty.
Speaker C:My God.
Speaker C:Evangelism became easier.
Speaker C:Church became easier.
Speaker C:I've shared with you a quote from Brene Brown that applies here.
Speaker C:She says that you cannot selectively numb emotions.
Speaker C:So if you're feeling a lot of pain and trauma and you start to drink to numb your pain, you also numb your joy.
Speaker C:Are you with me?
Speaker C:Now, whether you agree with that statement or not, I'm applying it here.
Speaker C:You also can't selectively shrink belief in salvation.
Speaker C:Here's what I mean.
Speaker C:If you shrink salvation down to that formula, you also shrink your capacity to love people.
Speaker C:Don't get me wrong.
Speaker C:There are plenty of people who have tried and true believe in that formula and love people very well and wonderfully.
Speaker C:But I'm telling you, there's a bigger view of salvation that makes your view of people explode with beauty and love and compassion and brightness.
Speaker C:If you shrink down salvation to that formula, it also shrinks your view of God.
Speaker C:You don't just shrink or reduce salvation to the formula.
Speaker C:You shrink a lot of things that are involved in it.
Speaker C:So did we get enlightened?
Speaker C:I don't know.
Speaker C:We did with some things.
Speaker C:We've discovered a lot.
Speaker C:A lot of good stuff.
Speaker C:What time is it?
Speaker C:10:25.
Speaker C:I'm still good.
Speaker C:You still with me?
Speaker C:Okay.
Speaker C:Do you need to do any jumping jacks or anything to stay with me?
Speaker C:Yes, sir.
Speaker C:Go ahead.
Speaker C:Yes.
Speaker C:Yes.
Speaker C:And Billy Graham is a great example.
Speaker C:Billy Graham is a guy that actually, he said a lot of things.
Speaker C:He said a lot of things that I really like.
Speaker C:I think he's one of the best of evangelical Christianity in some ways.
Speaker C:This is my opinion.
Speaker C:Who cares if you agree with it?
Speaker C:Because our goal is not to agree with Ross.
Speaker C:Right?
Speaker C:It's to seek to be in agreement with Jesus.
Speaker C:He's a great example of a guy who, like, lives by the formula.
Speaker C:Abc.
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker C:But you can't selectively shrink.
Speaker C:You shrink down salvation, you'll shrink your view of God, you'll shrink your view of people, you'll shrink your view of yourself, you'll shrink.
Speaker C:I have good news for you today.
Speaker C:Really, really, really good news.
Speaker C:Salvation is bigger and brighter, more mysterious and freeing and beautiful than we've ever heard.
Speaker C:And I'm not making it up.
Speaker C:It's been in the Bible all along, honestly.
Speaker C:A Bible.
Speaker C:I keep saying this.
Speaker C:I'm not even that big of a Lord of the Rings fan.
Speaker C:I'm not.
Speaker C:I do think the books are pretty darn good.
Speaker C:I'm still trying to slog my way through the second one.
Speaker C:He just talks about a forest for like 40 pages.
Speaker C:I'm like, we can move on, man.
Speaker C:I'm not even a big Star wars fan.
Speaker C:No offense.
Speaker C:They in some ways did a better job of giving us a picture of what salvation is like than churches did.
Speaker C:Sorry, sorry, sorry, Jack.
Speaker C:Vic.
Speaker C:Because they had this big cosmic battle that was waging good versus evil, light intruding on dark.
Speaker C:That's what the entire Bible is about.
Speaker C:Go to the one thing, there are some text slides, Mikey.
Speaker C:I don't know which one is which.
Speaker C:That's the thesis of the whole series.
Speaker C:I hope by Easter, like you get a little bit of this in your heart.
Speaker C:Go to the next one.
Speaker C:This is the one thing for today with Jesus.
Speaker C:The heavenly kingdom of light and glory is moving into earth, saving it from every spiritual force of darkness that is destroying humankind.
Speaker C:The Bible has this.
Speaker C:It's not an accident, folks, that everything is about God's light and God's glory.
Speaker C:That when God created, God is like this beautiful, big, transcendent, glorious, brilliant being who says, I want to spill out that stuff onto the earth, onto a creation and pour it into humankind.
Speaker C:Every human being with glory and light in their soul.
Speaker C:Genesis, right after Let There Be light, the pinnacle of creation is let us create humankind in our image.
Speaker C:Day one, it's good.
Speaker C:Day two, it's good.
Speaker C:Day three, it's good.
Speaker C:Day four, it's good.
Speaker C:Day five, it's good.
Speaker C:Day six.
Speaker C:When that humanity is created, it is supremely good because humankind has God's light and glory.
Speaker C:They are God's light beings meant to take care of this big creation with God.
Speaker C:It's a great and beautiful collaboration between God and humankind.
Speaker C:God could do it alone.
Speaker C:God says, I don't want to do it alone.
Speaker C:I want to do it with you.
Speaker C:But then, of course, what happened.
Speaker C:Shortly thereafter, the darkness was born too.
Speaker C:The darkness was born.
Speaker C:And I want to show you in scriptures how the entire scripture from COVID to cover is about like this.
Speaker C:It's a bigger cosmic view of salvation that when like, Jesus comes to Earth, it is a who said was here.
Speaker C:What's your name?
Speaker C:J.
Speaker C:Thank you.
Speaker C:You said it's like an old.
Speaker C:Taking the old and making it new.
Speaker C:That's salvation in a nutshell.
Speaker C:In the Bible.
Speaker C:It's not a formula.
Speaker C:It's about God's heavenly kingdom of light piercing the darkness and taking back over the earth.
Speaker C:It's like an invasion.
Speaker C:But instead of with weapons like swords and guns and bombs, isn't it love?
Speaker C:The invasion, the weapon.
Speaker C:The weapon is love.
Speaker C:Watch this.
Speaker C:Start going through the scriptures one by one, Michael.
Speaker C:I have no idea what order they're in in terms of relevance, but let's have at it, because I don't have my phone.
Speaker C:I want to show you this cosmic picture.
Speaker C:Is that the first one, Michael, in the list?
Speaker C:The big, long list.
Speaker C:Cool.
Speaker C:So from the beginning, like, this is from a prophet named Habakkuk.
Speaker C:Say Habakkuk.
Speaker C:I want to make sure you're still with me.
Speaker C:You can name your next pet that or something.
Speaker C:Or child.
Speaker C:I mean, we named our kid Boaz.
Speaker C:Someone said, are you really going to name your kid that weird name?
Speaker C:Yes, we are.
Speaker C:Listen to this.
Speaker C:Habakkuk 2, chapter 2.
Speaker C:This is the vision of the old being.
Speaker C:Redone.
Speaker C:The land, the land, all of it will be full of the knowledge of the Lord's glory.
Speaker C:Just as the waters cover the sea.
Speaker C:So when this thing gets made right, glory is going to spill out and cover the whole earth.
Speaker C:God's glory is going to take over.
Speaker C:God's brilliance is going to reform everything.
Speaker C:Forgiveness is a part of it.
Speaker C:Forgiveness is a part of the glory.
Speaker C:Go to the next scripture, Michael.
Speaker C:She will give birth to a son.
Speaker C:We already did this one Matthew 4.
Speaker C:This is huge.
Speaker C:This is the good news according to Jesus.
Speaker C:Look how they understood, like what Jesus coming means.
Speaker C:This is an old prophecy.
Speaker C:Land of Zebulun, land of Naphtali.
Speaker C:They're places in Israel, along the sea, across the Jordan, Galilee of the Gentiles.
Speaker C:Tiles Translation.
Speaker C:Unremarkable places that most people don't care about.
Speaker C:The people who lived in dark have seen a great light.
Speaker C:And a light has come upon those who lived in the region in the shadow of death.
Speaker C:Next line.
Speaker C:From that time, Jesus began to announce, change your hearts and lives.
Speaker C:Here comes the kingdom of the heavens.
Speaker C:In other words, the kingdom of the heavens has come near.
Speaker C:The kingdom of glory and light is coming near to invade the earth, where the spiritual forces of darkness and wickedness are taking over and are crushing humankind.
Speaker C:Go back again.
Speaker C:Do you see how the prophets understood that the world is getting destroyed by darkness and the shadow of death?
Speaker C:Psalm 23.
Speaker C:Though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil, for you are with me.
Speaker C:This is about an invasion of life and light and glory coming to the earth.
Speaker C:Keep going, Michael, keep going.
Speaker C:Next scripture.
Speaker C:Look at this one more time.
Speaker C:Jay, what's your interpretation?
Speaker C:Salvation.
Speaker C:Taking the old and making it new.
Speaker C:It is not an accident.
Speaker C:Genesis 1 starts within the beginning.
Speaker C:The people who wrote John 1 intentionally copied Genesis.
Speaker C:Why?
Speaker C:Because they were saying God is recreating the whole earth.
Speaker C:It's a new beginning.
Speaker C:Everything is made new, including you.
Speaker C:It's not just a formula.
Speaker C:In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God.
Speaker C:And the Word was God.
Speaker C:Mysterious stuff.
Speaker C:Put that into a formula, for Pete's sake.
Speaker C:The Word was with God in the beginning.
Speaker C:It's like God's mind.
Speaker C:The message in God's heart.
Speaker C:Was with God in the beginning.
Speaker C:Keep going.
Speaker C:We're going to go through this one quickly.
Speaker C:Everything came into being through the Word.
Speaker C:And without the Word, nothing came into being.
Speaker C:So before time even began, there was this being, this word with God.
Speaker C:What came into being?
Speaker C:Keep going, Michael.
Speaker C:Through the Word was life.
Speaker C:And the life was the.
Speaker C:Come on, you're not as fired up as I am.
Speaker C:I've been spending too much time in the weeds with this.
Speaker C:I'm like.
Speaker C:Like a mad scientist.
Speaker C:You can feel it today, can't you?
Speaker C:Has Ross been drinking too much caffeine today?
Speaker C:No, I've been drinking mushroom coffee with 80% less caffeine.
Speaker C:This is just this exciting to me.
Speaker C:It is my whole life I've been like, Amanda, like, salvation doesn't mean anything.
Speaker C:This can't be it.
Speaker C:I've discovered the last few weeks it's not it.
Speaker C:Thanks be to God.
Speaker C:It's so much bigger, though.
Speaker C:The Word was through.
Speaker C:The Word was life.
Speaker C:The life was the light for all people.
Speaker C:God's recreating the entire world.
Speaker C:Recreate it in fullness of light and glory.
Speaker C:Habakkuk says the knowledge of the Lord's glory is going to cover this thing.
Speaker C:It's like you spilled a can of golden paint on the earth and it just, like covered it.
Speaker C:That's what it'll be in the end.
Speaker C:Keep going, Michael.
Speaker C:The light shines in the darkness, and the darkness doesn't extinguish the light.
Speaker C:This light is coming and the darkness doesn't stand a chance.
Speaker C:Keep going.
Speaker C:A man named John was sent.
Speaker C:He was preparing the way for Jesus.
Speaker C:Keep going.
Speaker C:He came as a witness concerning the so that through him everyone would believe in the.
Speaker C:Are you getting the drift here?
Speaker C:What the Bible's all about?
Speaker C:It's about God's heavenly light being created, Darkness entering in through some mystery.
Speaker C:We can't do that today.
Speaker C:We need another hour.
Speaker C:How did the darkness come about?
Speaker C:Long story.
Speaker C:But light comes back to restore the Earth.
Speaker C:Keep going.
Speaker C:The true light that shines on all people was coming into the world.
Speaker C:He's kind of obsessed with light.
Speaker C:All the Bible is salvation is cosmic, galactic.
Speaker C:It's like that inflationary period I told you about when God said, let there be light.
Speaker C:And in a billionth of a trillionth of a trillionth of a second, the universe expanded at a rate of 10 to the 26th power.
Speaker C:It's like when Jesus came to the Earth, there was another big bang.
Speaker C:And all of a sudden, this light of God, this kingdom, started to expand at an impossible rate that the Darkness couldn't overcome.
Speaker C:The Roman Empire tried to extinguish it repeatedly and it won.
Speaker C:But then the church started to join up with the forces of darkness again.
Speaker C:In our time, we got to choose the light.
Speaker C:That's the practical thing today.
Speaker C:Keep going, Michael.
Speaker C:Alright, go to the next scripture.
Speaker C:We're almost done with the scriptures, I promise.
Speaker C:And we're almost done for today.
Speaker C:We've heard this one, right?
Speaker C:Have you heard of this one?
Speaker C:Two chapters after chapter one.
Speaker C:You got to understand this scripture in context of the first chapter.
Speaker C:We turned this into a formula.
Speaker C:If our formula was going to work, we needed to say God so loved individual people that he gave his son so that everyone who believes in him will not go to hell, but will go to some paradise that happened after you die.
Speaker C:It says God so loved the.
Speaker C:I'm trying to tell you that like Star Wars, Lord of the Rings, God comes to restore the entire earth.
Speaker C:God comes to save the whole thing.
Speaker C:If you think I'm lying.
Speaker C:We love verse 16.
Speaker C:What about 17?
Speaker C:Next verse.
Speaker C:There, Michael.
Speaker C:Is it on there?
Speaker C:Yes.
Speaker C:God didn't send his son in the world to judge the world.
Speaker C:Wow.
Speaker C:But that the world might be.
Speaker C:Well, look at that.
Speaker C:Does it say individual people?
Speaker C:And maybe I have had too much mushroom coffee or something.
Speaker C:But that the God.
Speaker C:This is so big.
Speaker C:God has come to restore the whole thing.
Speaker C:Keep going, Michael.
Speaker C:What's the next scripture?
Speaker C:Oh, what's this one?
Speaker C:Is it Ephesians?
Speaker C:Oh, cool.
Speaker C:This is Paul writing a letter from prison.
Speaker C:Brothers and sisters, become imitators of me and watch those who live.
Speaker C:This way you can use us as models.
Speaker C:Keep going.
Speaker C:As I've told you many times, and now with deep sadness, many people live as enemies of the cross.
Speaker C:He's not happy about people who are doing these things.
Speaker C:Keep going.
Speaker C:Our citizenship is in heaven.
Speaker C:We look forward to a savior that comes from there.
Speaker C:The Lord Jesus Christ.
Speaker C:Oh, I remember why I put this one in.
Speaker C:Next one.
Speaker C:Look at this.
Speaker C:He will transform our humble bodies so that they are like his glorious body.
Speaker C:Like everything gets clothed in glory.
Speaker C:Everyone gets transformed into glory.
Speaker C:Next scripture.
Speaker C:I said I was almost done.
Speaker C:Look how cosmic this is.
Speaker C:Somehow we quoted this verse a ton in church and missed it.
Speaker C:This feels like it could be straight out of Lord of the Rings or something.
Speaker C:We aren't fighting against human enemies, but against rulers, authorities, forces of cosmic darkness.
Speaker C:I told you, I'm not making up how cosmic like the Bible is and spiritual powers of evil in the heavens.
Speaker C:This is kind of weird, right?
Speaker C:All right, I'll transition to the end on this point.
Speaker C: Ooh,: Speaker C:Okay.
Speaker C:In a way, we've become more of a spiritual but not religious culture, right?
Speaker C:Yep.
Speaker C:It's in the data.
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker C:There's a phrase popping up all the time that I find curious.
Speaker C:Someone will go to Starbucks and they ordered something online, and it's for pickup, and you get there and you ordered a Ashley.
Speaker C:What's your favorite drink?
Speaker C:Chai.
Speaker C:Ashley orders a chai, and she goes there, and they accidentally made two.
Speaker C:And then we'll say, not Ashley.
Speaker C:But hypothetically, someone like Ashley says, well, the universe wanted me to have two instead of one today.
Speaker C:And it's like Academy Award music.
Speaker C:It's like the universe that really the universe did.
Speaker C:We'll talk like that.
Speaker C:We'll say we're spiritual but not religious.
Speaker C:But when we actually dig into, like, spiritual stuff in the Bible, we're like, whoa, whoa, whoa.
Speaker C:Forces of cosmic darkness.
Speaker C:That's too weird for me.
Speaker C:We'll say, the universe wanted me to have two chives.
Speaker C:But when I say, like, the Bible is telling us about a cosmic war that's waging, we're like, hey, hold on.
Speaker C:That's too much.
Speaker C:Back up, Ross.
Speaker C:I'm spiritual but not religious.
Speaker C:Yeah, I know.
Speaker C:Me too.
Speaker C:There are spiritual powers of evil that are, like, controlling the earth.
Speaker C:There's this guy who's leading a cult over in Whiteland, man.
Speaker C:He talks about spiritual forces of darkness and all that stuff.
Speaker C:Keep going, Michael.
Speaker C:All right, so what?
Speaker C:Go to the last text slide.
Speaker C:Not the scripture, just the text slides and the.
Speaker C:There we go.
Speaker C:We're going to talk more about your questions, but the so what?
Speaker C:Every day, every moment, is a chance to claim our crown with Jesus and live for his kingdom of light.
Speaker C:That's the so what?
Speaker C:Oh, man.
Speaker C:We only have one song, folks, after this.
Speaker C:So I have to tell you the story, because if I don't make it practical, I don't want it to be like Nick is saying, like, academic.
Speaker C:This is practical.
Speaker C:Like, every day, folks, is a chance to.
Speaker C:To, like, change your allegiance.
Speaker C:That's why Jesus says, repent and trust this good news.
Speaker C:He's saying, like, hey, stop participating in the forces of darkness.
Speaker C:Join in with the kingdom of light and glory.
Speaker C:Jesus has gone before you to crush the spiritual forces of darkness.
Speaker C:They are going to be put to rights.
Speaker C:Like, they're done.
Speaker C:Choose the kingdom of light.
Speaker C:Choose, glory.
Speaker C:Participate.
Speaker C:Be a part of the kingdom of light.
Speaker C:Jesus says, you are the salt and the what?
Speaker C:Of the world.
Speaker C:You are the salt and the light of the world.
Speaker C:So the other Night Recovery Church.
Speaker C:This is my last story.
Speaker C:We had a guy show up to Recovery Church who just got out of jail.
Speaker C:He did a stint in Johnson County Department of Corrections and then Marion County.
Speaker C:He just wanted to hit them all at the same time, sample them.
Speaker C:And he came back and like, I was so excited to see him.
Speaker C:And he gave me a letter from a guy who used to come to our meeting over in a neighborhood in Whiteland.
Speaker C:And he asked if we could bring him some diapers for a friend who needs help.
Speaker C:And so, like, this guy who came back to the meeting, he and I together went to this house over in this Whiteland neighborhood with a guy that I met, I've told you about and ride along with a police officer.
Speaker C:Police officer had some bad words to say about this house.
Speaker C:And so this guy who came back to me and was like, hey, can we go to this house?
Speaker C:Take them some food and take them some diapers.
Speaker C:This is the practical part, folks.
Speaker C:This is how big salvation is.
Speaker C:I'm not just saying, God, let me be in compliance so I can make it to heaven.
Speaker C:In the end.
Speaker C:Jesus is saying, ross, right now you get an opportunity to be a part of the kingdom of light and glory.
Speaker C:Go do it and do it with a heart that loves people as I do.
Speaker C:Man, I was on my way over to the.
Speaker C:You would have thought we were going to Dave and Buster's.
Speaker C:I was so excited to go over there because I caught a glimpse of what God is up to.
Speaker C:We went to Dave and Buster's last night.
Speaker C:So expensive.
Speaker C:Anyways, you would have thought that's where we were going because God gave me this vision.
Speaker C:Like, dude, I didn't just save you individually because you're some wretched moron and I want you to go to paradise.
Speaker C:In the end.
Speaker C:I saved you because I love you.
Speaker C:I want my light and my glory since it's been there since before time began.
Speaker C:I want it to enter into you and I want it to spark, spill out onto the earth.
Speaker C:Go show it to people because they need to know.
Speaker C:So we walk to that house and it smells awful.
Speaker C:And they're like, but, man.
Speaker C:And the guy, honestly, he looked terrible.
Speaker C:I couldn't have been happier to see him.
Speaker C:To give him the pizza, to give him the diapers.
Speaker C:And I'm going to continue to be in relationship with him because I have a chance to be a part of the kingdom of light and glory.
Speaker C:And you do too.
Speaker C:He has saved you not so that you can go somewhere else.
Speaker C:He has saved you so that the kingdom of light and glory can come to you and come to here.
Speaker C:That's it.
Speaker C:Let's pray.
Speaker C:Lord, help us to receive this, this light that you're so willing to offer to us, this forgiveness that you're so willing to offer us.
Speaker C:Forgive us God for when we have chosen to participate in the darkness.
Speaker C:Forgive us for how we'll keep choosing that at times.
Speaker C:Help us to turn back to you.
Speaker C:Help us to catch a glimpse in this season of how big and bright and beautiful your salvation is.
Speaker C:In Jesus name, Amen.
Speaker B:Thank you for participating in the conversation happening at Heaven Earth Church.
Speaker B:Your next opportunity to do so live is this Sunday morning, 9:30am Eastern Time, either at the main campus at 309 East Main in Whiteland, Indiana or online at YouTube Live.
Speaker B:That's@YouTube.com heavenerth church the audio podcast is always available at Apple Podcast and on Spotify.
Speaker B:You can help others find out about the Heaven Earth Church podcast by going to Apple Podcasts and or Spotify and leaving a five star rating and your review.
Speaker B:Instructions on how to do just that and links are in the show notes.
Speaker B:You can always find out more by going to the church website heavenearthchurch.org.
Speaker C:We.
Speaker A:Want to thank you for spending time with us today.
Speaker A:My name is Ross Stackhouse, the pastor to Heaven Earth Church and you may think out there that your story is over, but in fact your faith story may just be beginning.
Speaker A:If you want more information about our church or you're interested in the next step, you can go to heavenorthchurch.org otherwise we look forward to being with you next time at the Heaven Earth Church podcast.
