Episode 9
Dead Man Walking (Part 4): What’s Any of This Got to Do with Relationships?
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The latest installment of the Heaven Earth Church podcast, hosted by Ross Stackhouse, embarks on an in-depth examination of reconciliation within the Christian faith, particularly through the lens of Jesus' sacrificial death. Stackhouse, who serves as the founding pastor, sets forth the church's foundational commitment to those who feel out of place within traditional religious settings. He conveys a heartfelt message that every individual's story is intertwined with God's narrative, emphasizing the church's role in providing a nurturing environment where people can rediscover their faith, especially after experiencing hurt or exclusion. This context establishes a fertile ground for discussing the essential theme of reconciliation, which is presented as a transformative process that seeks to restore harmony in relationships.
The episode progresses to unpack the theological significance of reconciliation, illustrating how it is woven throughout the fabric of Christian doctrine. Stackhouse articulates that reconciliation is not merely a theological abstraction but a practical reality that manifests in the daily lives of believers. He shares personal stories and scriptural insights that highlight the necessity of reconciliation in fostering authentic relationships. Emphasizing humility and forgiveness, he challenges listeners to confront their own relational conflicts and to seek restoration actively. The teachings of Jesus serve as a framework for understanding how believers are called to engage in reconciliation, thereby reflecting the divine love they have received.
In conclusion, the episode serves as a clarion call for listeners to actively participate in the ministry of reconciliation, framing it as an essential expression of their faith. Stackhouse's insights encourage individuals to view reconciliation as a dynamic process that not only restores broken relationships but also aligns them with God's greater purpose in the world. This transformative journey invites believers to embody the light and glory of God in their interactions, thus contributing to a larger narrative of healing and restoration within the church and beyond.
Takeaways:
- Heaven Earth Church is dedicated to serving individuals who do not conform to traditional church paradigms, emphasizing inclusivity and acceptance.
- The essence of reconciliation, as defined in this episode, involves restoring relationships and harmony among people, reflecting divine love.
- The podcast explores the transformative nature of faith, particularly how personal stories of struggle and redemption intertwine with the overarching narrative of God's glory.
- Participants are encouraged to engage with their community and cultivate relationships, as this practice is integral to understanding and experiencing reconciliation.
- The discussion highlights how Jesus's life and death serve to reconcile humanity with God, restoring harmony and reflecting divine glory in our lives.
- Listeners are invited to recognize that their personal faith journeys may be just beginning, urging them to explore deeper connections within the church community.
Transcript
Welcome to Heaven Earth Church.
Speaker A:My name is Ross Stackhouse.
Speaker A:I'm the founding pastor of Heaven Earth Church.
Speaker A:From the beginning, our heart was to be a church for people who don't fit neatly into church.
Speaker A:Our heart is to meet people where they are, to learn their stories, to honor their stories.
Speaker A:Because in every human story is God's story.
Speaker A:In this podcast, you'll hear more about the people who now call Heaven Earth Church home.
Speaker A:Their stories, in many cases, of misfits who are discovering or rediscovering faith.
Speaker A:If you want to know more about us, you can go to heavenorthchurch.org Otherwise, we invite you now into the story.
Speaker B:Hello, good people.
Speaker B:Brad Miller here, the producer of the Heaven Earth Church podcast.
Speaker B:One of the main benefits of being a part of the Heaven Earth Church community is our Sunday morning conversations taught by founding pastor Ross Stackhouse.
Speaker B:You can watch and participate in the Sunday morning conversation this Sunday morning, 9:30am Eastern time at YouTube.com heavenerthchurch.
Speaker B:The audio version of the Sunday morning conversation is available here on the podcast, which you can find at Apple Podcasts, Spotify and on the website, which is heavenearthchurch.org Here now is Ross Stackhouse with part four of the Dead Man Walking series.
Speaker B:What's any of this got to do with relationships?
Speaker A:All right, let's have a prayer and then we'll have our conversation.
Speaker A:Lord, hear our prayers.
Speaker A:Hear the expressions of sorrow that are in our hearts.
Speaker A:We lift those up to you.
Speaker A:We celebrate.
Speaker A:Roger and Laura.
Speaker A:We don't know exactly how you act in the midst of our the concerns we raise, but reaching out in faith and hope that you do illuminate our minds, soften our hearts.
Speaker A:Help us to hear something new.
Speaker A:Help us to catch a glimpse of your glory in the name of Jesus, Amen.
Speaker A:Hey.
Speaker A:So when I say that word, it's a theme throughout this series.
Speaker A:It's a big part of what we're doing in this series.
Speaker A:Right now we're in a series called that Dead Man Walking.
Speaker A:Why Jesus Died and why It Still Matters for Ordinary People.
Speaker A:When I say the word glory, what thought or image comes to your mind?
Speaker A:Yes, it is a good movie.
Speaker A:It is anything that comes to mind.
Speaker A:Happiness.
Speaker A:Okay, Winning.
Speaker A:Which the Boilers almost did.
Speaker A:Josh.
Speaker A:We were close.
Speaker A:We were close to some glory that was unexpected.
Speaker A:Maybe next year.
Speaker A:Perpetually glory.
Speaker A:Light.
Speaker A:Wonder.
Speaker A:Magnificence.
Speaker A:Kara.
Speaker A:Gloria Way brought up Purdue.
Speaker A:I can sing the Purdue version of it if you'd like right now.
Speaker A:My father taught me when I was a wee lad.
Speaker A:My dad taught me many Good things.
Speaker A:He also taught me some other things.
Speaker A:Brightness.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:Heavenly fullness or wholeness.
Speaker A:Transcendent.
Speaker A:Anything else?
Speaker A:Glory.
Speaker A:Something of God.
Speaker A:Is that what you said?
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:I'm going to come back to that in a minute.
Speaker A:We're going to swing right back to that.
Speaker A:But I have to tell you about a dynamic that happens in our household.
Speaker A:I'm sure this doesn't happen to any of you sometimes.
Speaker A:Angela and I will be married 15 years in June.
Speaker A:We've been together almost 22 years.
Speaker A:I know.
Speaker A:You're like, man, you guys have been together since you were like five.
Speaker A:Ross.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:Well, it's kindergarten on up.
Speaker A:Sometimes we get in a fight.
Speaker A:I know it's hard to believe a holy man like myself would ever get in a fight.
Speaker A:And wouldn't you know that sometimes also when we get in a fight, a holy man like myself will sit in a room by myself and go, I'm not saying sorry first today.
Speaker A:Not happening.
Speaker A:No.
Speaker A:That was her tonight.
Speaker A:No way.
Speaker A:Nope.
Speaker A:She said this.
Speaker A:That did not merit that kind of reaction.
Speaker A:She needs to own up to it.
Speaker A:Nope.
Speaker A:Anybody got that going on in their life?
Speaker A:I love it right now.
Speaker A:Just me.
Speaker A:And it's not just marriage.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:It's in our friendships.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:And for some of us, like, those conflicts go way back.
Speaker A:I've had family situations.
Speaker A:It's hard to imagine a holy man like myself holding grudges in my family life.
Speaker A:I guess I'm revealing today that I'm just another dude, which I try to tell you all the time.
Speaker A:But what I want to share to you with today, we're talking about, like, why did Jesus die today?
Speaker A:I want to talk to you about this word reconciliation, which for some may be a word that you don't use a lot or it's not very familiar to you, but in case you needed some definition of what that word is.
Speaker A:Nope.
Speaker A:Nope.
Speaker A:Yep.
Speaker A:From Merriam Webster.
Speaker A:It's to restore to friendship or harmony, to settle or resolve, to make consistent or congruous.
Speaker A:And then if you.
Speaker A:What in the world?
Speaker A:It doesn't show that at all on my phone.
Speaker A:What the heck is going on?
Speaker A:I have no idea.
Speaker A:Well, there's the Greek word for it, in case you wanted to know.
Speaker A:You can't see the definition, but I have no idea what it's doing.
Speaker A:That.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:It's a secret.
Speaker A:You got to figure out what that is.
Speaker A:It means to.
Speaker A:I got to read it in little fit.
Speaker A:To transfer from a certain state to another, which is quite different.
Speaker A:To transfer from a certain state to another, which is Quite different.
Speaker A:Hence to reconcile.
Speaker A:So, like, that verb shows up quite a bit to transfer from a certain state to another.
Speaker A:So if you think about a relationship, like, if I approach someone and I say sorry, which for whatever reason is a terribly difficult thing to do for human beings, especially people who are in power, they're just putting that back up there to taunt me.
Speaker A:These slides always get the best of me.
Speaker A:We need to reconcile me and propresenter.
Speaker A:God bless you, Emily.
Speaker A:Emily's trying to reconcile me in the slides right now.
Speaker A:You see, Restore it to harmony.
Speaker A:But when you say sorry, it has a way of transferring the relationship from, from one state to another.
Speaker A:Right now it doesn't promise it because you could say sorry and the other person could say, to hell with you.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:So it doesn't necessarily transfer it from one state to another.
Speaker A:But as they say in Alcoholics Anonymous, steps 8, 9.
Speaker A:We're going to clean up our side of the street.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:So you gave it your shot.
Speaker A:Right?
Speaker A:So we're talking about reconciliation today.
Speaker A:So that's where we're going to hang out.
Speaker A:But I've got to get back to this word glory.
Speaker A:I promise.
Speaker A:They go together.
Speaker A:Okay.
Speaker A:So do you see what this person's doing here?
Speaker A:It is a bathtub.
Speaker A:Anybody been doing that recently?
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:So there's this phenomenon called star bathing.
Speaker A:Star bathing.
Speaker A:I read an article about it on BBC.
Speaker A:You can go to a star bathing retreat at, like an international dark sky Park.
Speaker A:This one was in.
Speaker A:I don't remember.
Speaker A:But the.
Speaker A:Obviously you can see the article.
Speaker A:It's.
Speaker A:Could a star bathing retreat calm your frazzled mind?
Speaker A:If you look that up on BBC.
Speaker A:Don't do it now because you're paying attention here.
Speaker A:Could a star bathing retreat calm your frazzled mind?
Speaker A:And I thought this was so fascinating that there was this whole article that was like, groundbreaking and earth shattering.
Speaker A:Like staring at the stars could restore you to equilibrium.
Speaker A:Wow.
Speaker A:But it is.
Speaker A:We don't pay attention as much.
Speaker A:That's not a prisoner of the moment thing.
Speaker A:Research shows it anecdotally.
Speaker A:We are more distracted as a people.
Speaker A:We are more looking down than looking up than ever.
Speaker A:And it's destroying us.
Speaker A:There's book upon book about it.
Speaker A:The Anxious Generation is a popular book right now about how we're so engaged and addicted to, like, things like this and propaganda that's floating around on social media.
Speaker A:We're so stuck in certain ways of thinking, worldviews, narratives.
Speaker A:We're not seeing the glory, the glory of it all.
Speaker A:I mean, it's an old, old idea, folks.
Speaker A:Psalm 8.
Speaker A:This is a star bather right here.
Speaker A:A person's looking at this impossible cosmos and like going, what in.
Speaker A:When this person was writing it, everything was an international dark sky park.
Speaker A:The whole world was.
Speaker A:But now there's light pollution everywhere.
Speaker A:So you got to go somewhere to see the stars.
Speaker A:What are human beings that you think about them?
Speaker A:What are human beings that you pay attention to them?
Speaker A:You've made them only slightly less than divine.
Speaker A:Crowning them with.
Speaker A:Crowning them with.
Speaker A:And grandeur.
Speaker A:It goes back.
Speaker A:We had this series on the spiritual practice of wonder.
Speaker A:Star bathing would be an example of practicing wonder.
Speaker A:When you position yourself in a place to have great attention to the awe of God in a way that creates gratitude in you and enjoyment and also a sense of responsibility about what you have been given.
Speaker A:And so today, like, I want to talk to you about how, like when I was studying and I have been studying this concept of salvation, like pouring over the New Testament.
Speaker A:I keep telling you I'm going to share that document with you.
Speaker A:And I don't.
Speaker A:It's just a Google Doc with all these notes.
Speaker A:I'm struck by how, like, I'm asking, like, some of our students are, like you asked, like, saved from what?
Speaker A:What is God saving us from?
Speaker A:And how.
Speaker A:And as Brandon asks, why is death the mechanism?
Speaker A:Why is blood?
Speaker A:That's not this week.
Speaker A:It's two weeks.
Speaker A:So, Brandon, hang on.
Speaker A:Okay.
Speaker A:This week is reconciliation.
Speaker A:When I poured over that this concept of reconciliation is everywhere, that somehow Jesus life and his death restore things to harmony.
Speaker A:It transfers us from one state to another.
Speaker A:And when I looked at the Bible, it wasn't just about.
Speaker A:It transfers you, Heather, from going to hell to going to heaven.
Speaker A:No, back to that in a minute.
Speaker A:Our formula.
Speaker A:Remember that?
Speaker A:When I read it, it's that everything is just all over the Bible.
Speaker A:That everything is made to reflect the glory of God.
Speaker A:Everything is made to reflect the glory of God.
Speaker A:Say it with me.
Speaker A:Everything is made to reflect the glory of God.
Speaker A:Say it again.
Speaker A:Everything is made to reflect the glory of God.
Speaker A:When I think of glory, I think of all the things that you've mentioned.
Speaker A:I think of this impossible, transcendent light, like what the Hubble telescope first discovered in the 90s.
Speaker A:Like that kind of glory.
Speaker A:Like impossible, brilliant light.
Speaker A:Like gazing at the cosmos and saying, like, could it be?
Speaker A:It is.
Speaker A:It's not.
Speaker A:Could it be?
Speaker A:It is incredible heavenly light and warmth.
Speaker A:Like we cannot imagine something that you know, like when you've had an experience that makes the hairs on the back of your neck stand up kind of glory like we're made to reflect the beauty and grandeur and glory of God, to shine like the stars.
Speaker A:It's not an accident that Jesus said, I am the light of the world.
Speaker A:And he also said that you, Jay, are the light of the world, the salt and the light of the world.
Speaker A:When God creates humankind, he says, let us create humankind in our image.
Speaker A:In your very DNA is glory.
Speaker A:You're crowned with it.
Speaker A:But, uh.
Speaker A:Oh, there's a picture of the solar system in there.
Speaker A:Christy, can you get to it?
Speaker A:My slides aren't working so hot.
Speaker A:Also from the BBC Solar System Facts, 5 Things Everyone should know about our cosmic neighborhood.
Speaker A:Did you know you're part of a cosmic neighborhood?
Speaker A:The Bible recounts that something happened almost like our.
Speaker A:I'm sure you've read up on some of this stuff, that our solar system exists in this impossible harmony.
Speaker A:It's unbelievable.
Speaker A:And the Earth is at this tilt.
Speaker A:I think it's 23 and a half degrees or something like that.
Speaker A:And if it were tilted even fractionally differently, life would not exist at all.
Speaker A:But yet it does, in this impossible, wonderful, glorious harmony.
Speaker A:The Bible recounts that something happened along the way to disturb the harmony.
Speaker A:It's like the planets got knocked out of their glorious harmonious orbit.
Speaker A:Things fell.
Speaker A:The world is not as it should be.
Speaker A:And in some mystery, see if this happens.
Speaker A:There it is.
Speaker A:Jesus's life and death reconciles all things to God, restores all things to harmony with God's glory.
Speaker A:It's like some force comes along and restores the planets that have been disturbed from their.
Speaker A:Some force comes along and restores them so that they're orbiting as they should around the sun.
Speaker A:Jesus is the most of force and he is the sun.
Speaker A:We are made to, like, be in this glorious harmonious orbit with God reflecting the beauty of the sun, receiving its warmth and its light.
Speaker A:That's how big the whole thesis of this series, remember, is that, like, salvation is so much bigger, so much brighter, so much more beautiful, freeing and mysterious than we've ever heard.
Speaker A:And it affects and it matters for every ordinary person on Earth.
Speaker A:But really quick, I just want to take you through.
Speaker A:I want to ask you a question.
Speaker A:I already asked you one.
Speaker A:In your experience, in your church life, or maybe just in your life as a whole, what has been your understanding of what God's main concern is like?
Speaker A:What's like at the end of the day, like, what is God trying to do with Jesus?
Speaker A:What's God's main concern?
Speaker A:Lucy, you've heard that.
Speaker A:Good.
Speaker A:I'M glad.
Speaker A:Well, you just heard it from me.
Speaker A:Yes.
Speaker A:Take this morning out of the equation.
Speaker A:Is.
Speaker A:Is.
Speaker A:You're right.
Speaker A:That's exactly what today is about.
Speaker A:Luz.
Speaker A:No, you know, that's what today is about.
Speaker A:What else have you heard?
Speaker A:What's God's main concern?
Speaker A:Save us from hell.
Speaker A:That's what you've heard, Josh.
Speaker A:Like, if you had to boil it down, that's what you've heard.
Speaker A:Okay.
Speaker A:Courtney, were you going to say something?
Speaker A:God's main concern is saving us from hell.
Speaker A:Like in the.
Speaker A:If you gathered the thesis from Christianity at the end of the day, no matter what the other paragraph said, that was the thesis.
Speaker A:Okay.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:Yeah, sure.
Speaker A:Okay.
Speaker A:What's God's.
Speaker A:To re.
Speaker A:Establish relationship with God's children.
Speaker A:To save us from ourselves, to save us from destruction.
Speaker A:Does that mean hell, Christy?
Speaker A:Or just.
Speaker A:Yeah, okay.
Speaker A:Adam.
Speaker A:Adam used to think, like, maybe used the takeaway, used to be some of the other stuff, but now has moved more to this saying, like Jesus coming to him so that we would receive life and know it.
Speaker A:Like in the fullest.
Speaker A:Charles, similar transformation where in a similar vein to other people.
Speaker A:It was kind of more save us from our sins.
Speaker A:Kind of the camp I grew up in.
Speaker A:Yeah, hell, everything else.
Speaker A:I think for me it's kind of this radical shift.
Speaker A:Yes, let's pivot on that point.
Speaker A:Charles grew up in a camp too, where, like, if you had to boil it down, God's main concern was saving us from sin and hell.
Speaker A:But Charles is moving more to.
Speaker A:There's a weird thing going on with the slides.
Speaker A:When I click on one, it goes to a different one.
Speaker A:There's a one that says God's main concern.
Speaker A:We talked about this earlier in the series.
Speaker A:God's main concern is making things right, is making all things new.
Speaker A:Jesus said, behold, I'm renewing all things.
Speaker A:I'm making all things new.
Speaker A:That's where we're going to end up, is with justice, with the wrong things being made right, with the things that are broken being restored.
Speaker A:That is God's heart.
Speaker A:That's where the end is.
Speaker A:And I said, I'm just going to recap really briefly.
Speaker A:When we shrink down our view of salvation and we just make it that formula we talked about the last two weeks, we can't help but also shrink down our view of God.
Speaker A:We'll shrink down our view of people.
Speaker A:So that's why this series is about, like, blowing it back up to its right size.
Speaker A:Salvation is cosmic.
Speaker A:Like, it's huge, it's galactic, like God, it's Bigger and brighter, more beautiful, freeing and mysterious than we've heard.
Speaker A:And I want to show you that in these.
Speaker A:In scriptures.
Speaker A:Go to Colossians Christy.
Speaker A:Oh, wait, it's in my.
Speaker A:This is fabulous how it's doing this today.
Speaker A:I'll try to restart the app and see what happens.
Speaker A:Yes, there we go.
Speaker A:This is Colossians 1.
Speaker A:Colossians is a letter to communities of early Christians in a town called Colossi.
Speaker A:So Paul would visit, would travel around, build relationships with people, share with them, like who Jesus is, what he's about.
Speaker A:They would start a church, and then he would touch back with them.
Speaker A:He'd write them a letter.
Speaker A:And in this one, this is one of the earliest sort of hymns of the first Christian movement.
Speaker A:Listen to how cosmic this is.
Speaker A:The Son is the image of the invisible God, the one who is first over all creation.
Speaker A:Keep going, Christy.
Speaker A:Because all things were created by him, both in the heavens and on the earth.
Speaker A:Do you see how big Jesus is right now in this?
Speaker A:He's not small little transaction Jesus that you go to him to get your golden ticket to go to heaven.
Speaker A:He is the Lord of the universe.
Speaker A:The things that are visible and the things that are invisible, whether they are thrones or powers or rulers or authorities, all things were created through Him.
Speaker A:And for him, he existed before all things, and all things are held together in Him.
Speaker A:He is the head of the body, the church, who is the beginning, the one who is firstborn from among the dead.
Speaker A:Hang on to that one right there.
Speaker A:It's coming up in Brandon's week.
Speaker A:This concept of firstborn of the dead, it's repeated several times in Scripture.
Speaker A:Like, Jesus is the beginning.
Speaker A:He is the first step of an entirely new thing.
Speaker A:So he might occupy first place in everything because all the fullness of God was pleased to live in Him.
Speaker A:And he say that word, and He.
Speaker A:He restored to harmony.
Speaker A:He transferred things from one state to another.
Speaker A:He reconciled to himself through him, whether things on earth or in the heavens.
Speaker A:He brought peace through the blood of the cross.
Speaker A:We're going to talk about that in two weeks.
Speaker A:Did I tell you?
Speaker A:Hold on.
Speaker A:P.T.
Speaker A:asks a question.
Speaker A:When did Jesus.
Speaker A:A couple weeks ago.
Speaker A:When did Jesus go from, like, human to more than human?
Speaker A:Answer now.
Speaker A:It's complicated.
Speaker A:And it took the church like, 400 years to come up with something we'd call a doctrine.
Speaker A:You've heard it before.
Speaker A:He's fully human and fully.
Speaker A:Well, that answers it.
Speaker A:Everybody got that?
Speaker A:What?
Speaker A:Look, we don't have to know exactly how to explain it all, folks.
Speaker A:Certainty has Become an untrustworthy idol at which we've been worshiping for too long.
Speaker A:Let yourself be given to mystery.
Speaker A:This is saying, you're not going to get it.
Speaker A:But before there was anything, he was, and he is glorious.
Speaker A:And so this big reconciliation, we're going to be big for a minute.
Speaker A:I'm going to get practical, like, so why do I care?
Speaker A:Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, Friday, Saturday.
Speaker A:This restoration is about.
Speaker A:This hymn starts out with the beginning.
Speaker A:All things were created through him, and that it ends with now.
Speaker A:Because things went awry, everything has to be reconciled to Him.
Speaker A:Everything was created to reflect his galactic glory.
Speaker A:Everything is supposed to shine with this warmth and glory and beauty of God.
Speaker A:We don't know it.
Speaker A:We're like, well, what is he?
Speaker A:Even Is that we're asking that from the vantage point of our broken situation.
Speaker A:Everything was created to reflect God's glory, and Jesus came to set it straight.
Speaker A:Unlike me sitting in the room.
Speaker A:And when Angela and I fight.
Speaker A:Love you, darling.
Speaker A:You weren't in here for the first part.
Speaker A:And I'm sitting in my room going, I'm not going to say sorry.
Speaker A:No, she did it today.
Speaker A:She's being cranky and irritable.
Speaker A:And that response did not merit.
Speaker A:It wasn't there.
Speaker A:I'm not saying sorry.
Speaker A:She's going to have to say sorry.
Speaker A:I'm going to sit in here until she says sorry.
Speaker A:Any of you do that.
Speaker A:Here's the good news.
Speaker A:Jesus always leaves the room to reconcile.
Speaker A:He left the room of the.
Speaker A:Of the heavenly kingdom to come here and make it right.
Speaker A:Goes to Kiersten's question about, like, so which is it people say, like, we're saved by grace.
Speaker A:It's all about God's work.
Speaker A:It's all about Jesus's character and what he does.
Speaker A:But if we don't respond to it, we're not saved.
Speaker A:Well, it's a little bit of a both.
Speaker A:It's like Evan.
Speaker A:Evan's a good friend of mine.
Speaker A:If I.
Speaker A:If Evan and I were a bit at odds because he's an IU fan, I'm a Purdue fan.
Speaker A:And he said something that really hurt my feelings.
Speaker A:But then I wanted to reconcile with him.
Speaker A:So I thought really hard, like, man, what does Evan need?
Speaker A:How do I give him something that can restore us?
Speaker A:And so I put together.
Speaker A:I work with Kara, who's really good at designing things, and I say, and she's an IU man, too, help me design something that's really glittery and glorious and Hoosier like.
Speaker A:And so she sets the song the IU fight song on like this, she goes on, what is it?
Speaker A:Pinterest.
Speaker A:And finds a design, and we design it, and I give it to Evan as, like, a.
Speaker A:Like, I make the first move, and he takes the gift, and he's like, cool, man.
Speaker A:And he stays mad at me, puts it on a shelf in its closet, and it gathers dust.
Speaker A:It doesn't change the fact that I extended the gift.
Speaker A:It is up to him to say, you know, I think he put a lot of thought and love and care into this.
Speaker A:Ball's in my court now.
Speaker A:So all of this is by the grace and work of God.
Speaker A:Our entire life, my friends, our entire lives are one thing, a response to God's grace.
Speaker A:It's your entire life.
Speaker A:It's to receive this glorious beauty that was given at creation and is given out again and again and again and again and again through grace.
Speaker A:When you don't care about it, when you're running off and doing your thing, God is pursuing you and saying, like, the gift is there for you in hopes that one day, like that prodigal son or daughter, you'll turn around to discover God was waiting.
Speaker A:Right, Jim?
Speaker A:Wasn't he waiting?
Speaker A:It said, here, look at this.
Speaker A:Some people have asked.
Speaker A:It's been said, the cross doesn't change God's mind about us.
Speaker A:It changes our mind about God.
Speaker A:Some theology.
Speaker A:The formula kind was like Jesus was trying to trick the Father.
Speaker A:What?
Speaker A:They're the same being.
Speaker A:They're on the same page.
Speaker A:Last time I checked, the Father's just in love with us as the Son.
Speaker A:That's why they collaborate.
Speaker A:Weird for us to understand.
Speaker A:Another day we'll talk about the Trinity.
Speaker A:They're like, we gotta go save these people.
Speaker A:Yes, they screwed it up, but we got to go save them.
Speaker A:How are we going to do it?
Speaker A:Like the world does it with violence and swords and stuff?
Speaker A:No, we're going to do it with the only weapon that can actually restore things.
Speaker A:Love.
Speaker A:Of course.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:But then it will still be up to them to choose it.
Speaker A:Well, yeah.
Speaker A:That's how relationships work.
Speaker A:If it's force or manipulation, it's not a relationship.
Speaker A:I got to choose.
Speaker A:You got to choose.
Speaker A:Jay and I are friends.
Speaker A:If I keep asking Jay to come to lunch with me, and he says, no, I'm busy.
Speaker A:Well, I'm not gonna show up and rip Jay out of bed.
Speaker A:Get in my car right now.
Speaker A:We're going to Charleston's to get some key lime pie.
Speaker A:Yeah, I know.
Speaker A:It's good.
Speaker A:That's not a friendship.
Speaker A:Jay has to choose I have to choose.
Speaker A:God makes the move to restore us to harmony so that we reflect this brilliance.
Speaker A:When Jesus was transfigured on the mountain, he showed his disciples like, hey, here's what I actually look like when I'm really decked out in all my heavenly glory.
Speaker A:I took on your form for a bit, but guess what?
Speaker A:You're gonna become like me.
Speaker A:You're becoming like me.
Speaker A:It's in your head.
Speaker A:Keep going.
Speaker A:Christy, once you were alienated from God and you were enemies with him, can you read the next three words in your minds?
Speaker A:And then you, because you're doing that, you're like, you know, I'm going to join up with the forces of darkness and evil.
Speaker A:Perhaps I didn't do that.
Speaker A:Well, I told you last week, sin is not just like when you choose to lie.
Speaker A:It's actually like participating in this cosmic force of darkness for which you are not destined.
Speaker A:You're destined for the kingdom of light and glory.
Speaker A:One more thing from Ephesians.
Speaker A:Actually, let's skip it.
Speaker A:You know what?
Speaker A:I'm going to do a good thing and cut to the end.
Speaker A:We're not going to go over today because Angela and I got to leave for Tennessee right after church.
Speaker A:Don't we, honey?
Speaker A:And if I want to start a fight today, I'll go over and stay after, and then I will have to go say sorry.
Speaker A:So did you all hear me?
Speaker A:I'm leaving right after church.
Speaker A:I want to have a good ride down there.
Speaker A:Nothing to do with her.
Speaker A:So, like, so what?
Speaker A:Go read Ephesians 2 this week.
Speaker A:Did you read Romans 5 and 6 like I assigned you?
Speaker A:Go read Ephesians 2.
Speaker A:Here's why it matters.
Speaker A:Here's what I want to show you.
Speaker A:Jesus, whole life he spent teaching people about, like, how this big concept of reconciliation plays out in everyday life.
Speaker A:All of his teachings are about, like, reflect God's heart in your relationships.
Speaker A:I think it's Matthew 5 in there.
Speaker A:It's all in one thing.
Speaker A:It was supposed to be so organized today.
Speaker A:And the daggone thing doesn't work.
Speaker A:It's always not working.
Speaker A:Actually, I don't have it in there.
Speaker A:Forget it.
Speaker A:I'm on fire today.
Speaker A:Woo.
Speaker A:J.
Speaker A:Jesus says in Matthew 5, Sermon on the Mount.
Speaker A:He says something like this, if you're going to church, if you're going to worship on Sunday at 9:30 at Heaven Earth Church, should we move it to 10?
Speaker A:Never mind.
Speaker A:Hold that thought.
Speaker A:Anyways, you're going to church.
Speaker A:You're like, I'm going to worship today.
Speaker A:I'm Going to bring the Lord my best.
Speaker A:Jesus says stop.
Speaker A:First.
Speaker A:If you got a quarrel with somebody, put down your gift, Go to your friend or your person with whom you have some hostility.
Speaker A:Go do your part to make it right.
Speaker A:Go reconcile.
Speaker A:Then come back, grab your gift and go to church.
Speaker A:This isn't just like abstract, like woo hoo, we get reconciled to the cosmic glory.
Speaker A:It's something you practice.
Speaker A:Reconciliation makes sense when you practice it.
Speaker A:You know who gets reconciliation?
Speaker A:Ross, you're always talking about recovery.
Speaker A:Yeah, because I learned so much from it.
Speaker A:You know people who get reconciliation, people who work the 12 steps, they do steps one, two and three, have the spiritual awakening and surrender to God.
Speaker A:Then they take a deep, hardcore inventory.
Speaker A:Steps four and five, they look at their own defects.
Speaker A:Step six and seven, and then eight and nine, they go make amends with people.
Speaker A:Make a long list of people they got to make amends with.
Speaker A:Who wants to do that?
Speaker A:But what if they.
Speaker A:Now, you don't do it if it's gonna.
Speaker A:How's it go, Bobo?
Speaker A:If it's going to injure yourself or others.
Speaker A:But you go clean up your side of the street, you offer your gift.
Speaker A:Jesus spent his whole time talking about relationships.
Speaker A:Reconciliation.
Speaker A:Ross.
Speaker A:I don't want to say sorry.
Speaker A:I don't want to pursue reconciliation.
Speaker A:Do you want to be a part of the kingdom of light and glory balls in your court?
Speaker A:Yeah, but they hurt me.
Speaker A:They wronged him.
Speaker A:I know that if it were easy, then, I mean, everybody be doing it.
Speaker A:Jesus didn't come to give us something easy.
Speaker A:He gave us something that's transformational and reflects God's glory.
Speaker A:It's up to you to be a part of it.
Speaker A:He's going to give you grace every step of the way.
Speaker A:He's not like, hey, Heather, go reconcile.
Speaker A:Good luck.
Speaker A:Hope it goes well.
Speaker A:Like in my hardest moments of needing to reconcile with my enemies.
Speaker A:Yes, I know I'm a holy man of God, but I've had some enemies, people that hurt me.
Speaker A:And in my head, whoo, I was not treating them nicely up here.
Speaker A:And so I prayed about it.
Speaker A:It's a weird thing, prayer.
Speaker A:I don't know how it works yet.
Speaker A:Maybe someday.
Speaker A:But this little thing started changing in my heart about my enemy.
Speaker A:I started to see it from their shoes, in a person who had really wronged me and mistreated me.
Speaker A:Not just once, but over and again.
Speaker A:I saw what that person had been through in life, how they'd lost people.
Speaker A:Dear people, they were hurting me because they were hurting.
Speaker A:And so I went and said, sorry did that person receive my gift?
Speaker A:Did we reconcile?
Speaker A:No.
Speaker A:Do I regret doing it?
Speaker A:Not one bit.
Speaker A:Because you know what happened?
Speaker A:I caught a glimpse of the glory.
Speaker A:My God, that's what you're like.
Speaker A:Praise be to God.
Speaker A:I have so much love in my heart for that person standing here right now.
Speaker A:And we have not reconciled.
Speaker A:So this has, like, Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, Friday, Saturday kind of stuff.
Speaker A:It's not just later.
Speaker A:I leave you with this Second Corinthians.
Speaker A:Go there, if you would, Christy.
Speaker A:These are Paul's words.
Speaker A:All these new things are from God, who reconciled us to himself through Christ and who gave us the ministry of reconciliation.
Speaker A:Do you see how it works?
Speaker A:Jesus comes as the glorious gift to you so that you are realigned with the glory of heaven.
Speaker A:You're transferred from one state to another.
Speaker A:You are over here, like, partying in Vegas.
Speaker A:What happens in Vegas stays in Vegas.
Speaker A:Participating in the spiritual forces of darkness.
Speaker A:Not really.
Speaker A:You were just thinking bad things about your friend.
Speaker A:Whatever.
Speaker A:But it's like Vegas.
Speaker A:You thought nobody saw it wrong.
Speaker A:God said, hey, I'm defeating every force, every barrier that keeps you from walking from this kingdom to this one.
Speaker A:Be reconciled.
Speaker A:Go to the next one, Christy.
Speaker A:He's not counting your mistakes against you.
Speaker A:He's not expecting you to get the rap sheet cleared up.
Speaker A:Keep going.
Speaker A:So you are ambassadors.
Speaker A:You represent this glorious cosmic Christ who came to reconcile you.
Speaker A:Paul says it.
Speaker A:This is my so what?
Speaker A:For the day.
Speaker A:Be reconciled.
Speaker A:What's Paul saying?
Speaker A:The ball's in your court.
Speaker A:It's like Evan.
Speaker A:I gave him my beautiful gift that Carrie and I designed so we could reconcile.
Speaker A:But Evan put it up on a shelf.
Speaker A:He's got to get it off the shelf.
Speaker A:And some of you might be saying, like, Ross, but you don't know what I've been through in my church experience.
Speaker A:It's been bad.
Speaker A:I've got spiritual trauma.
Speaker A:I can't even receive this message today because it's got too much baggage in it.
Speaker A:I'm triggered too much.
Speaker A:I feel you on that.
Speaker A:It happened and it mattered.
Speaker A:But can I ask you to do something?
Speaker A:Don't.
Speaker A:Please don't let people ruin your view of this glorious Jesus.
Speaker A:He is the head of the church, but he also transcends the church.
Speaker A:He is still as glorious and as beautiful as he's ever been.
Speaker A:Be reconciled.
Speaker A:Come back to him.
Speaker A:He stands waiting.
Speaker A:Keep going, Christy.
Speaker A:That's good enough for today.
Speaker A:Maybe go to the star bathing picture.
Speaker A:That's fun.
Speaker A:That's where we'll end.
Speaker A:How do you get reconciled?
Speaker A:How do you be reconciled.
Speaker A:This is it, folks.
Speaker A:Do what you're doing today.
Speaker A:Every time you show up and you're fully present with your community like this, it's like you're gazing at the stars, you're gazing at the sun.
Speaker A:We're doing it together.
Speaker A:We're trying to get restored to this glorious harmony with God together.
Speaker A:But it's also something you do.
Speaker A:I said it last week.
Speaker A:When you Decide to give 10 minutes of your morning to stillness and prayer rather than Facebook.
Speaker A:Ross, I don't have any time.
Speaker A:Hey, can I see your screen time for a minute?
Speaker A:Ross, why are you judging me?
Speaker A:You got time.
Speaker A:Be reconciled.
Speaker A:It's a relationship, folks.
Speaker A:When you show up, you're investing in the relationship and he will honor it.
Speaker A:He will grow new things in you and through you.
Speaker A:When you show up for 10 minutes of prayer, when you show up fully with people, you see people, you're being reconciled.
Speaker A:And also you're being an ambassador.
Speaker A:You're taking forward the ministry of reconciliation.
Speaker A:You're participating in this kingdom of light and glory.
Speaker A:Guys, this is something you can do.
Speaker A:Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, Friday, Saturday.
Speaker A:Every day is an opportunity to participate in the kingdom of light and glory with Jesus.
Speaker A:So let's do it.
Speaker A:Let's pray.
Speaker A:God, I ask that you would heal the parts of us that are hurt.
Speaker A:Heal us from our wounds, how we've been hurt, perhaps by church going folks, people who are Christian.
Speaker A:Heal us and help us to receive your presence, your friendship, your love.
Speaker A:And also forgive us for how we've neglected your gifts, neglected time with you, neglected relationship.
Speaker A:Forgive our resentments and our self justifications, how we've looked at people as enemies and as means to ends.
Speaker A:Bring us back into your glorious light.
Speaker A:Bring us back into this harmonious orbit with you.
Speaker A:And as the sound of children enters the room, we give you thanks that you welcome us as your children in Jesus name.
Speaker A:Amen.
Speaker B:Thank you for participating in the conversation happening at Heaven Earth Church.
Speaker B:Your next opportunity to do so live is this Sunday morning, 9:30am Eastern Time, either at the main campus at 309 East Main in Whiteland, Indiana or online at YouTube Live.
Speaker B:That's@YouTube.com the audio podcast is always available at Apple Podcast and on Spotify.
Speaker B:You can help others find out about the Heaven Earth Church podcast by going to Apple Podcasts and or Spotify and leaving a five star rating and your review instructions on how to do just that and links are in the show notes.
Speaker B:You can always find out more by going to the church website heavenearthchurch.org.
Speaker A:We want to thank you for spending time with us today.
Speaker A:My name is Ross Stackhouse, the pastor to Heaven Earth Church, and you may think out there that your story is over, but in fact, your faith story may just be beginning.
Speaker A:If you want more information about our church or you're interested in the next step, you can go to heavenorthchurch.org Otherwise, we look forward to being with you next time at the Heaven Earth Church podcast.
