Episode 9
Dean Man Walking: (Part 5) New Creation and New Selves
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The discourse provided within the confines of the Heaven Earth Church podcast unveils the profound journey of transformation that individuals undergo when they embrace faith in a supportive community. The founding pastor, Ross Stackhouse, articulates a vision for the church as a sanctuary for those who often feel alienated from traditional religious settings. Through the narratives shared, particularly that of Cassie Jared, we gain insight into the struggles of those who grapple with addiction and the pursuit of a renewed self. Cassie's candid reflections on her past reveal the intricate layers of shame and fear that often accompany the journey towards sobriety. She elucidates the pivotal moment when surrendering to a higher power became her pathway to liberation, shedding light on the essential theme of the podcast: the invitation to walk in newness of life through faith. This episode serves not only as a testament to individual resilience but also as an encouragement for listeners to explore their own stories within the larger narrative of divine grace and redemption.
In highlighting the transformative experiences of its congregants, the podcast delves into the complexities of personal growth and the importance of community support. The discussions pivot around the concept of 'new creation' as articulated in Romans, emphasizing the notion that embracing a new identity in Christ is an ongoing process rather than a singular event. Cassie's journey, marked by her initial skepticism and subsequent leap of faith, illustrates the power of vulnerability and authenticity in fostering genuine connections within the church community. Ross Stackhouse's insightful commentary interspersed throughout the episode invites listeners to confront their own old selves, encouraging a continuous process of growth and renewal. This episode, rich in personal testimony and theological reflection, invites listeners to consider how they might also step into a life characterized by grace and transformational love.
The episode stands as a poignant exploration of the intersection between faith, recovery, and personal identity. It underscores the importance of recognizing the old self that each individual must confront in order to embrace the new self that faith offers. Through the lens of Cassie's testimony, we witness the struggles and triumphs of one who has navigated the tumultuous waters of substance abuse, ultimately finding solace and strength within the community of Heaven Earth Church. The podcast extends an invitation to all who listen, challenging them to reflect on their own lives and the narratives they inhabit. It serves as a reminder that within every story lies the potential for redemption and renewal, as the church endeavors to meet individuals where they are, honoring their journeys and facilitating their growth in faith.
Takeaways:
- Heaven Earth Church strives to be a community for those who feel marginalized by traditional religious settings, aiming to meet individuals where they are in their spiritual journeys.
- The narratives shared during the podcast highlight the transformative power of allowing oneself to embrace vulnerability and authenticity in faith.
- Cassie’s journey illustrates that true surrender to faith often necessitates confronting one's past and relinquishing control over one’s life choices.
- The discussion emphasizes that walking in newness of life is an ongoing process, requiring continuous commitment to personal growth and spiritual development.
Links referenced in this episode:
Transcript
Welcome to Heaven Earth Church.
Speaker A:My name is Ross Stackhouse.
Speaker A:I'm the founding pastor of Heaven Earth Church.
Speaker A:From the beginning, our heart was to be a church for people who don't fit neatly into church.
Speaker A:Our heart is to meet people where they are, to learn their stories, to honor their stories.
Speaker A:Because in every human story is God's story.
Speaker A:In this podcast, you'll hear more about the people who now call Heaven Earth Church home.
Speaker A:Their stories, in many cases of misfits who are discovering or rediscovering faith.
Speaker A:If you want to know more about us, you can go to heavenorthchurch.org Otherwise, we invite you now into the story.
Speaker B:Hello, good people.
Speaker B:Brad Miller here, the producer of the Heaven Earth Church podcast.
Speaker B:One of the main benefits of being a part of the Heaven Earth Church community is our Sunday morning conversations taught by founding pastor Ross Stackhouse.
Speaker B:You can watch and participate in the Sunday morning conversation this Sunday morning, 9:30am Eastern time at YouTube.com heavenerthchurch.
Speaker B:The audio version of the Sunday morning conversation is available here on the podcast, which you can find at Apple Podcasts, Spotify and on the website, which is heavenearthchurch.org here now with part five of the Lenten Dead Man Walking series, New creation and new selves, is Pastor Ross Stackhouse.
Speaker A:Lord, I ask that you would awaken us, that you would guide us and help us to hear what it is that you have to say to us.
Speaker A:In Jesus name, amen.
Speaker A:Hey.
Speaker A:At this time, I am so excited and she's a little bit nervous, but she shouldn't be because she's awesome.
Speaker A:Today I want to, as a part of our conversation, I want to invite Cassie Jared up.
Speaker A:So come on up, Cassie.
Speaker A:Give her a round of applause.
Speaker A:Oh, thank you.
Speaker A:Ah, there it is.
Speaker A:Thank you, Emily.
Speaker A:And then Adam.
Speaker A:I'm going to give her mic four after I get the clip off.
Speaker A:Two clips off.
Speaker A:I could have been prepared for this beforehand, but I'm not.
Speaker A:So Cassie is.
Speaker A:We have two leaders for Recovery Church, and Alicia Bledsoe is one.
Speaker A:Cassie very recently is our other.
Speaker A:So I'm so excited.
Speaker A:I'll tell this part of your story, then you get to tell the rest.
Speaker A:Okay.
Speaker A:So our sign has stayed the same for, like, months out there, if you even know.
Speaker A:We have a church sign out there.
Speaker A:It advertises Recovery Church.
Speaker A:Actually, no, you tell it.
Speaker A:How did you first come to Recovery Church tell that story?
Speaker C:Well, I actually saw the sign.
Speaker C:I was one of what we call the sign people.
Speaker C:And I had driven past a few times and I was skeptical For a minute, you know.
Speaker C:And so I kind of did my research online a little bit, and because I was nervous, and I just decided, let's just take that leap.
Speaker C:And to be fair, I did bring my mom the first time because I was nervous, but it ended up being one of the best decisions I've made.
Speaker A:It's such a cool story.
Speaker A:So today we're talking about.
Speaker A:There's a phrase that you're going to see in a minute from Romans, chapter six.
Speaker A:It talks about, we get to walk in newness of life.
Speaker A:We've been in a series called Dead Man Walking, and we're asking, like, how.
Speaker A:Like, how does Jesus save us?
Speaker A:Like, what does that really mean?
Speaker A:Like, why did he die?
Speaker A:And why does it still matter for us?
Speaker A:We're talking about walking in newness of life.
Speaker A:And I invited Cassie here today because she's a person who's.
Speaker A:I've walked alongside Bennett, and she's walking in newness of life.
Speaker A:And I'm learning from her, and she's very willing to be vulnerable here today and share her story.
Speaker A:So I wanted to ask you to start out, Cassie, what did hanging on to your old self look like for you?
Speaker A:Like what?
Speaker A:What were the stories you told yourself?
Speaker A:What were your justifications?
Speaker C:I think my justifications for it were I had a lot of fear of moving forward and of change.
Speaker C:It was a lot easier to just be in the place I was.
Speaker C:It was going to take work, a lot of effort.
Speaker C:And so I think letting go of a lot of that control, too, was scary.
Speaker C:Admitting to myself, you know, when I was sober, you know, admitting to myself the things that brought me shame and guilt and not feeling like I was worthy of forgiveness at the time, I think so.
Speaker C:I think that I just kind of stayed stuck in that place because I felt like that was what I deserved after so long.
Speaker A:Wow.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker A:You kind of spoke to this already, like, about, like, what drove you to the old life or to cling to your old self.
Speaker A:You kind of already spoke to that.
Speaker C:But I think it was more comfortable.
Speaker C:I think it was just a place of my own space, you know, And I was.
Speaker C:I was fearful to break out of that with what came with that.
Speaker C:You know, I knew there were going to be a lot of flooding emotions and feelings that were going to be uncomfortable.
Speaker C:And so I just kind of stayed in my little bubble in that shell.
Speaker C:But it was pretty lonely.
Speaker A:So you can share as little or as much as you want.
Speaker A:What did a day in the old life look like?
Speaker C:It was a vicious cycle of negative Truthfully, I mean, I had a pretty severe alcohol problem.
Speaker C:It was life.
Speaker C:Whether I was doing it from the time I woke up, it came to the point where I was at work, you know, it was.
Speaker C:That was life.
Speaker C:That was how I got through my day to day.
Speaker C:And I think it was due to a lot of not wanting to unpack things that were really going on, you know, past traumas, things like that.
Speaker C:And then it just.
Speaker C:It wasn't pretty.
Speaker C:It wasn't pretty.
Speaker C:And like I said, it was just a vicious cycle, and I didn't progress in any way whatsoever.
Speaker C:It was no way to live.
Speaker C:There was no living, I guess you could say it was just me and drinking.
Speaker A:Your life, kind of.
Speaker A:That was the center.
Speaker C:That was it.
Speaker C:Yeah, that was it.
Speaker A:What did it take for you to surrender and step into newness of life?
Speaker C:We discussed it, and in all fairness, it took me going to jail for my mistakes, and even then, I didn't surrender.
Speaker C:Then you would think when, you know, you're at the bottom there, that would be rock bottom, you know, you're sitting in jail.
Speaker C:Unfortunately, that was not enough for me to change.
Speaker C:I changed for a little bit, and then I relapsed.
Speaker C:And it really took me losing everything.
Speaker C:My home, my place of shelter, you know, not having a job, not having a car, literally having nothing and realizing, like, there's one of two ways this could go.
Speaker C:You know, I can either do something about it and take that leap that's gonna be really uncomfortable, or, you know, this could end up being a life or death situation or in just being incarcerated situation, you know, I had to make a change and make that decision.
Speaker C:And so I finally kind of released the control that I thought I had over it, you know, and kind of what they.
Speaker C:What they say, you know, Jesus, take the wheel, like, just kind of gave it to him, because clearly what I was doing was not working.
Speaker C:My justifications were silly.
Speaker C:I don't know.
Speaker C:So I just had to.
Speaker A:But at the time, they made really good sense.
Speaker C:They made perfect sense at the time, you know, like, oh, I got an argument with somebody, so why not drink?
Speaker C:Or, you know, like, you know, some bad things happen in life, you know, so why not?
Speaker C:You know.
Speaker A:They talk in recovery.
Speaker A:There's a phrase like the gift of desperation.
Speaker A:And you kind of.
Speaker A:You received that gift and you.
Speaker A:You shook off your denial.
Speaker A:You mentioned it a little bit.
Speaker A:Like, how has.
Speaker A:How has faith played a role in this?
Speaker A:Maybe both in the old oldness of life and the newness of life?
Speaker C:I mean, I would say in the Oldness of life.
Speaker C:My faith really just revolved around.
Speaker C:I mean, during time period, which was around seven years that I battled this, it was more of begging to just get through, like, say, withdrawal or things like that.
Speaker C:Whereas now it's developed into, you know, I want to have a deeper relationship with God.
Speaker C:I want to.
Speaker C:It's more of a personal relationship.
Speaker C:It's almost like for me, I don't know.
Speaker C:Whereas in the past, like, I might go to church, go through the motions, you know, and not really process and think deeply about the word of God and everything and how it applies.
Speaker C:So I just feel like now it's much more personal, deepened relationship, and I just want to continue to learn more and help other people too.
Speaker C:I think God's kind of led me that route clear, you know, with leadership now and everything.
Speaker A:So one thing I can say about Cassie is that what is enriching her life and our lives in the meetings is that she has the beauty of a beginner's heart.
Speaker A:Every meeting, she shows up like a beginner.
Speaker A:And it just helps me to remember that, like, that's what I want to be too.
Speaker A:Lastly, hey, what's exciting about right now?
Speaker A:What's going on?
Speaker C:All kinds of things.
Speaker C:It's amazing the doors that opened when I actually let go of that control and allowed God to really lead my life.
Speaker C:Most exciting for me, I'm finally engaged.
Speaker C:I'm having a baby, which is really exciting.
Speaker C:I've never been more excited about something and really felt like ready for it.
Speaker C:I don't know.
Speaker C:This whole journey is actually, I think, really prepared me for these moments that I've been wanting for so long.
Speaker A:And you just got your one year token not too long ago, so.
Speaker C:16 months now.
Speaker A:16 months, yeah.
Speaker C:Super exciting.
Speaker C:Thank you.
Speaker A:Well, thank you, Cassie.
Speaker A:You did it.
Speaker C:Thank you.
Speaker C:Thank you, everyone.
Speaker A:All right, you can take a seat and give a round of applause.
Speaker A:Again.
Speaker A:Everything I will say for the rest of time is just commentary on that.
Speaker A:That's basically the sermon today.
Speaker A:That's it.
Speaker A:And no, it's not just a cop out because I was on vacation and I didn't have much time to prepare.
Speaker A:Okay, what does that stir in you?
Speaker A:Hearing that story?
Speaker D:I think about the things that I'm doing right now that aren't serving me or working.
Speaker D:And it reminds me to go back, that I keep failing at something to.
Speaker D:To be a beginner, then start again.
Speaker D:And just thank you for reminding me that I need to.
Speaker D:The things I'm doing and continuing.
Speaker D:If you aren't serving me, they're not working.
Speaker D:So I need to remember that.
Speaker D:And so it was just a good reminder of that.
Speaker A:Yeah, Tran's just saying, like, it's a good reminder, like, and she's thinking about the things that she's doing that aren't serving her, but maybe telling herself a story that they are.
Speaker A:Whatever.
Speaker A:What about you?
Speaker A:What's this stirring in you?
Speaker A:Every person is a child of God and you matter.
Speaker A:So true.
Speaker A:What's that stirring in you?
Speaker A:What's that?
Speaker A:All things are possible.
Speaker A:Hey, we're starting a series called the recovery is possible speaker series.
Speaker A:Did I tell you?
Speaker A:All right, sorry.
Speaker A:What else?
Speaker A:What's astir in you, Bobo?
Speaker A:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker A:It was bring your mom to recovery church night, and she came on just the right night.
Speaker A:What else?
Speaker A:What's this making you think?
Speaker A:What's it making you feel?
Speaker A:Hope.
Speaker A:Me, too.
Speaker A:Like, man, so much hope.
Speaker A:And, Cassie, really quick, you have no pressure to, like, give us all hope.
Speaker A:Okay?
Speaker A:You did it by just being you, by just showing up.
Speaker A:And you just give me hope that, like, if I keep showing up and I seek help to let go of my denial and I keep trying to step into surrender, like, it's going to be okay.
Speaker A:Katie.
Speaker A:Yeah, See, I was weird because when she said I thought, like, she was the only one who struggles with control in the room.
Speaker A:She led this meeting.
Speaker A:It was her first meeting.
Speaker A:She talked about the difference between surrender and compliance.
Speaker A:And, like, how for a while, she was just in compliance mode.
Speaker A:Like, doing just enough to not be in trouble.
Speaker A:That is what we're trying to mature into in faith instead of just, like, being compliant religious people.
Speaker A:Like, experiencing the beauty of, like, falling into the ocean of grace, which takes a lifetime of learning how to do.
Speaker A:Charles.
Speaker D:Radiant life and feels less lonely.
Speaker A:Yeah, in many ways.
Speaker D:But not really had, like, an addiction, substance issue ever.
Speaker D:But there's also.
Speaker D:There's a lot of times where there's things I'm feeling that I don't want to feel.
Speaker A:Yes.
Speaker A:Yep.
Speaker A:Yep.
Speaker A:Charles talked about feeling glad, but also sense of not feeling lonely, but feeling connected.
Speaker A:Because while he hasn't had a substance use issue, he, too, can relate to.
Speaker A:Like, there are things that I don't want to feel, and there are feelings that I know I'm feeling, but I kind of.
Speaker A:I want to.
Speaker A:I want to go away from them.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:Anybody else today?
Speaker A:What I want to talk to you about, I just put up a reel about it.
Speaker A:I need some social media help from people who understand.
Speaker A:Every time I feel silly doing social media, I don't know what I'M doing.
Speaker A:So if you're out there going, like, Ross looks like an idiot, come talk to me and help me.
Speaker A:Okay?
Speaker A:I'm looking at the young people.
Speaker A:Okay.
Speaker A:Social media started with the facebook.com for me.
Speaker A:So, anyways, I talked in that reel about how most of the Christianity we've been talking about this in this series.
Speaker A:Most of the Christianities we've experienced in our neck of the woods shrink down salvation to a formula that, at the end of the day, has something to do with what happens after you die.
Speaker A:The problem with that is that it shrinks your view of God.
Speaker A:Just as we can't selectively numb emotions, so if we numb our pain, we also numb our joy.
Speaker A:If we numb our loneliness, we also numb our peace.
Speaker A:If we shrink down our view of salvation, we can't help but shrink down the other things that are related to it.
Speaker A:We shrink our view of God, we shrink our view of other people, we shrink our view of ourselves.
Speaker A:And what we've been talking about in this series, Dead Man Walking, is that the good news is that when you look at the accounts of Jesus life in the first movement that was born after him, salvation according to Jesus is not shrunken down.
Speaker A:It is big galactic, bigger, brighter, more beautiful, freeing and mysterious than we've ever heard.
Speaker A:Basically, what I've been talking to you about is like Star wars or Lord of the Rings or some of these movies and books do a better job of, like, giving us this really big cosmic view of salvation that we see in the Bible.
Speaker A:According to the Bible, Jesus comes as the light of the world to do battle with the forces of darkness that have taken over the world.
Speaker A:Ross, that's too mysterious and confusing.
Speaker A:Well, get used to it.
Speaker A:Faith is mysterious and confusing, but it's beautiful too.
Speaker A:Why did we shrink down salvation?
Speaker A:We wanted control.
Speaker A:We wanted the comfort of certainty.
Speaker A:Give it up.
Speaker A:The mystery is better.
Speaker A:So much better.
Speaker A:Harder.
Speaker A:Oh, yeah.
Speaker A:Harder.
Speaker A:Jesus comes to bring the kingdom of light and glory.
Speaker A:That word, glory.
Speaker A:I'll give you a Cliff Notes version of what we're talking about at Easter.
Speaker A:Glory.
Speaker A:Now, don't.
Speaker A:I'm not coming because I already know what it's about.
Speaker A:I already know what glory is about.
Speaker A:I'll stay home, get my ham ready.
Speaker A:Come to Easter anyways.
Speaker A:It's gonna be a good time.
Speaker A:He comes to bring the kingdom of light and glory into collision with the spiritual forces of death and evil and sin to deal with them once and for all.
Speaker A:There's something about how I don't yet understand this.
Speaker A:I'm still trying to figure it out.
Speaker A:I'm thinking through your questions.
Speaker A:Next week is Brandon's question, why is death the mechanism?
Speaker A:What's all this stuff about blood in the Bible?
Speaker A:Why did this Jesus fella have to shed blood for it to happen?
Speaker A:I don't get it, but something about his life and his death and his resurrection initiate a new creation.
Speaker A:Revelation 21, Behold, I am making all things new.
Speaker A:Does that sound like shrunk down to you on making all things new?
Speaker A:That's not a formula.
Speaker A:It's the restoration and reconciliation of all things to the light and glory of God.
Speaker A:Including and especially you.
Speaker A:You are the point.
Speaker A:Justin, you're the point.
Speaker A:Cassie, you are the point.
Speaker A:Heather Harris, you are the point and you're not the point.
Speaker A:Am I the point or am I not the point?
Speaker A:Yes.
Speaker A:His invitation to us is to become new creations, who with him build the new creation.
Speaker A:2nd Corinthians 5:17 says it this way.
Speaker A:So then if anyone is in Christ, that person is part of the new creation.
Speaker A:The old things have gone away and look new things have arrived.
Speaker A:That's why I featured Cassie like her story in every single one of our stories is about like whether we seized upon the opportunity and the invitation to let the old self die and be buried with Christ so the new self could be raised with Christ.
Speaker A:Paul says in Romans 8, if the Spirit who raised him from the dead is in us, will we not also be raised from the dead?
Speaker A:Resurrection is weird and mysterious.
Speaker A:Ross, there's a point today.
Speaker A:Give up the certainty and control.
Speaker A:Step into the mystery and beauty.
Speaker A:When I think about newness of life.
Speaker A:I'm going to show you this scripture in a minute.
Speaker A:I think about how there was my life before I had children.
Speaker A:I've talked about this before.
Speaker A:And then there was life after I had children.
Speaker A:I thought I understood how to do marriage and then I had a child and I had no discretionary time anymore.
Speaker A:And now all my stress tendencies became much more possible every single day.
Speaker A:So there was a newness of life that was beautiful and really hard.
Speaker A:Not getting sleep is not fun.
Speaker A:And trying to show up in life without sleep is not fun.
Speaker A:And here's the crazy thing.
Speaker A:Part of what I want to talk to you about today is that like facing our denial, like looking our denial in the face, looking our egos in the face, confronting our old self is not a one time thing.
Speaker A:Am I right?
Speaker A:Cassie?
Speaker A:Somehow I had had two children and we had a third on the way.
Speaker A:I was with Ashley one day working and I said, do I strike you As a person who's about to have another child, she said, no, you do not.
Speaker A:And I could tell it was stressing her out.
Speaker A:Love you, Ashley.
Speaker A:I was just, like, running, running, running, running, running, running.
Speaker A:Not listening to any stuff that was going on in my psyche, which I had from COVID from being a first responder, chaplain, from some other stuff.
Speaker A:It was sitting there and I was just working.
Speaker A:I wasn't, like, drinking, but I was working.
Speaker A:I was going to my drug.
Speaker A:Ambition, achievement, perfectionism.
Speaker A:And I was using that drug every day and getting a hit, and I was numbing everything.
Speaker A:Didn't matter that Juniper Claire was on the way.
Speaker A:I was still going, man.
Speaker A:I worked right up until the moment I stepped into that hospital.
Speaker A:And I thought I was good.
Speaker A:Mmm.
Speaker A:And then the fact that I'd been dancing around with my old self, dancing with the devil in the pale moonlight, as the joker says.
Speaker A:I was dancing with the devil in the pale moonlight for many days.
Speaker A:And I walked into a storm because of it.
Speaker A:And this church took care of me through that storm.
Speaker A:You all did.
Speaker A:And I was diagnosed with post traumatic stress disorder.
Speaker A:But guess what?
Speaker A:It was an opportunity yet again to step into newness of life.
Speaker A:A new depth.
Speaker A:New depth in my spirit, new depth in my mind, new depth in my emotions to wake up again to the beauty of Christ.
Speaker A:I haven't figured out darn near anything except that I need a power greater than myself.
Speaker A:I'm back to the basics, as Joanna said.
Speaker A:So in just a few minutes, I'm going to ask you what that looks like for you, but I want to point back to a scripture really quick.
Speaker A:I asked you one time to read Romans 5.
Speaker A:6.
Speaker A:PT was the only person who did the homework because I asked, did anyone read Romans 5 and 6?
Speaker A:All of you were, like.
Speaker A:You were, like, looking at the stained glass windows to behold their beauty for a minute.
Speaker A:And PT Was like, yes, I did.
Speaker A:He was the only guy looked me straight in the face.
Speaker A:Thank you, PT when you think about this cosmic view of salvation that Jesus comes to bring the kingdom of light and glory like a big bang, in confrontation with the spiritual forces of darkness and evil, to renew all things, that's salvation according to the Bible.
Speaker A:It's big.
Speaker A:It's about the renewal and restoration of all things, including you, Kirsten, including everyone in this room.
Speaker A:So when you think about that view and then go back to read some of these letters that you heard when you were growing up in church and they got shoved into this formula, I want you to read them again, but I'll Help you today.
Speaker A:Look at this.
Speaker A:So what are we going to say?
Speaker A:Should we continue sinning?
Speaker A:So grace.
Speaker A:This is Romans, chapter six.
Speaker A:So grace will multiply.
Speaker A:Paul's basically saying, if you think that grace, this idea that God just pours out love upon us, God makes the first move to save us and come near us and bring this kingdom of light to us, that's grace.
Speaker A:If you think that the way it works is that if you just sin, more like, more grace pours out.
Speaker A:You've already missed the point.
Speaker A:Cause sin is not just your individual thoughts, words, and actions.
Speaker A:Sin is this force from which you've been released.
Speaker A:It's this force that's ruling us.
Speaker A:Jesus comes so that a new force rules.
Speaker A:What's that force?
Speaker A:Grace.
Speaker A:He wants our lives to be ruled by grace.
Speaker A:Like, we got a new leader in our lives, and our leader is Jesus, King Jesus and his grace.
Speaker A:So that we've been transferred from our allegiance to this kingdom of darkness over this kingdom of grace and light and glory.
Speaker A:So Paul's like, if you think that, like, if I just keep sinning, grace multiplies.
Speaker A:Grace can't multiply.
Speaker A:It just is.
Speaker A:It's abundant.
Speaker A:It rules.
Speaker A:Absolutely not.
Speaker A:Like he's saying, all of us died to sin.
Speaker A:How can we still live in it?
Speaker A:If sin is your just individual thoughts, words, and actions, that sentence makes no sense.
Speaker A:No, it's a force that's been, like, put to death.
Speaker A:Don't you know that all those who are baptized in Christ Jesus were baptized into his death?
Speaker A:Doesn't that sound exciting?
Speaker A:You want to follow Jesus?
Speaker A:Yippee.
Speaker A:It's so beautiful, though, and mysterious and freeing.
Speaker A:If we give up the control, that's what baptism is a symbol of.
Speaker A:Did you know when we go under the water, it's.
Speaker A:We're buried with Christ, Our old self buried with him.
Speaker A:And the new self is risen up.
Speaker A:So I'm done growing when I get.
Speaker A:So you're saying, ross, when I'm done, when I get baptized, it's all done right.
Speaker A:I'm finished.
Speaker A:The new creation project's all done right?
Speaker A:No, to go back to the birth story instead.
Speaker A:Actually, it's like we're babies when we come up out of the baptism water.
Speaker A:We got to learn to walk and talk.
Speaker A:We got to learn life all over again.
Speaker A:We got to choose every day.
Speaker A:We said yes once in baptism.
Speaker A:We got to say yes a thousand eighty three more times.
Speaker A:Or actually way more than that.
Speaker A:We got to keep saying yes to the kingdom of grace.
Speaker A:We got to keep saying yes to letting grace rule so that therefore we were buried together with him through baptism into his death.
Speaker A:So that just as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, we too can walk in.
Speaker A:So that just as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, we too can walk in.
Speaker A:That's what this whole thing is about.
Speaker A:That is not a shrunken down reality.
Speaker A:Like, this is big.
Speaker A:The renewal of all things, the renewal of you, the restoration of you, but also the restoration of everything.
Speaker A:To go back to what we said as the whole.
Speaker A:His invitation to us.
Speaker A:Evan, you and me, every day is like, keep growing as a new creation, who with Christ, builds the new creation.
Speaker A:Everybody has a part to play.
Speaker A:Everybody has a role in this thing.
Speaker A:That's the thesis.
Speaker A:We already did that.
Speaker A:I'm about to turn it over to you.
Speaker A:I already said that.
Speaker A:We're good.
Speaker A:Ah, that's it.
Speaker A:So is salvation instantaneous or is it a lifelong process?
Speaker A:Yes, yes.
Speaker A:Everybody's salvation journey is different.
Speaker A:Everybody's recovery journey is different.
Speaker A:Somebody sometimes will hear.
Speaker A:Someone like, I had a light beam down from heaven, and Jesus spoke to me, and then I was saved.
Speaker A:And they.
Speaker A:And for whatever reason we heard that, and we were like, shoot, that must mean I'm.
Speaker A:I'm on the chopping block.
Speaker A:I'm out.
Speaker A:I've never had that.
Speaker A:I don't have some story where, like, instantaneously, boom, I was saved.
Speaker A:I have moments in my life, though, where there is life before it and life after it.
Speaker A:I've gone back to the very parking spot where I was sitting in my car where it happened when I was in the depths of depression and anxiety disorder and.
Speaker A:And I'd lost the thing that mattered to me most at that time.
Speaker A:And I felt Jesus whispering to me.
Speaker A:Was it Jesus or my brain?
Speaker A:Yep.
Speaker A:Can't deny it.
Speaker A:It's the experience that led me to this place today.
Speaker A:So I want to end with you.
Speaker A:You gotta finish the sermon.
Speaker A:Cause I was on vacation this week and I didn't have time to finish it all.
Speaker A:What's this actually look like, though?
Speaker A:Like, how do you.
Speaker A:Like this is all, like, wonderful, beautiful stuff that we're part of a new creation, not just some formula of salvation.
Speaker A:God comes to make all this new revelation, says, death will be no more.
Speaker A:He will wipe their tears from their eyes.
Speaker A:Everything risen up, restored, made new.
Speaker A:What does it look like?
Speaker A:How do you actually step into newness of life?
Speaker A:Good luck.
Speaker A:I hope this sermon ends well.
Speaker A:What's it actually look like?
Speaker A:How do you do that?
Speaker A:How do you actually step into newness of life.
Speaker A:Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, Friday, Saturday.
Speaker A:Patty.
Speaker A:Thanks for sharing that, Patty.
Speaker A:Patty was baptized when she was 9, but it wasn't until 23, 24 that she stuck with it.
Speaker A:So 14 years later, of showing up, like, where there was this awakening about, like, this is actually true, that God loves me is true.
Speaker A:And then continuing on, she said this, I didn't.
Speaker A:That through being alongside me and my growth and awakening, that she kept experiencing shifts.
Speaker A:So it's this continual process of, like, being open to learning and change.
Speaker A:What else?
Speaker A:How does it work?
Speaker A:What's it actually look like?
Speaker A:The room needs help.
Speaker A:We can't just keep it in the abstract today.
Speaker A:Got to get to some concrete stuff.
Speaker A:Joey.
Speaker D:Choices.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:That are seemingly mundane, like scroll on social media or.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker D:And then, then there are bigger choices that are bigger life choices that affect you and maybe others over the course of month, couple years or whatever.
Speaker D:And really, it's just understanding those choices.
Speaker A:That you're making, how they affect you and others.
Speaker D:But just relying on God.
Speaker A:Yes.
Speaker A:Yep.
Speaker A:For Joey, absolutely.
Speaker A:Walking into stepping in a newness of life is ultimately about choices.
Speaker A:There are big ones.
Speaker A:Like, you could make the choice, like a big choice, like, I'm going to receive the gift of Jesus and be baptized.
Speaker A:Big choice.
Speaker A:But you're not done with choices.
Speaker A:Then I had somebody who called me Friday because they wanted to, like, get some.
Speaker A:Have a sounding board for a job that they were considering.
Speaker A:So we talked for 30 minutes on the phone.
Speaker A:That's walking into newness of life instead of just making a choice that you feel in your head discerning.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:Taking time, making a choice to be wise rather than just like jumping or leaping to action.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:What else?
Speaker A:What?
Speaker A:Michael?
Speaker D:For me, it's not a linear process.
Speaker D:It's kind of going forward.
Speaker D:But while we're doing that, going forward backwards.
Speaker A:Yes, yes, yes.
Speaker A:It's not linear.
Speaker A:Pete Scazzero says Americans like things that go up and to the right.
Speaker A:We just want progress, growth, linear discipleship.
Speaker A:We.
Speaker A:The formula told us it goes like this.
Speaker A:Boom.
Speaker A:You say, yes, you're saved.
Speaker A:Now immediately flip on the switch where you don't do the thou shalt not list.
Speaker A:Don't do that list.
Speaker A:Now you've been transferred over to this list.
Speaker A:So you walk in, you carry your Bible into church.
Speaker A:You don't curse, you don't drink.
Speaker A:If you do, you do it secretly so they don't see it.
Speaker A:No, man.
Speaker A:That's grafting fruit onto the tree.
Speaker A:Newness of life is about growing tree fruit from the inside.
Speaker A:Out.
Speaker A:Heather.
Speaker D:Today would have been my brother's 42nd birthday and I'm just really grateful that back to him.
Speaker D:But my life and my family, my feels as he's gone is a reminder to just like I got salvation five years ago because I realized that every day you got to live with a purpose.
Speaker A:Heather, thank you so much for sharing that, Heather.
Speaker A:Heather just made a choice to be vulnerable.
Speaker A:That's what it takes to walk in the newness of life.
Speaker A:Partly.
Speaker A:Heather shared online about her brother, who would have been 42 today.
Speaker A:Thanks for sharing that, Heather.
Speaker A:Yeah, go ahead.
Speaker A:Yes.
Speaker A:Yeah, dad, let me tweak it real quick.
Speaker A:I can do this to my dad.
Speaker A:I can't do it to the rest of you.
Speaker A:Dad said you hope to be better every day.
Speaker A:Dad, I think you hope to surrender every day.
Speaker A:Some days you might take a step back.
Speaker A:That doesn't mean that you didn't make progress.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:Like Mikey said, it's not get better every day discipleship looks like this, doesn't it, dad?
Speaker A:But Jesus is in all that.
Speaker A:And you're like, sweet, this is okay.
Speaker A:It's okay.
Speaker A:And then eventually one day we'll wake up.
Speaker A:This is the glory of it all.
Speaker A:And I believe this.
Speaker A:God help my unbelief.
Speaker A:One day we'll be sitting in a faraway kingdom, but actually it won't be all that far away.
Speaker A:It'll be here on this earth where all things are restored.
Speaker A:Our questions will either be answered or they won't matter anymore.
Speaker A:Charles.
Speaker D:My life is like doing for being.
Speaker D:And it seemed like faith, a lot of doing.
Speaker D:But maybe in recent years I've come to realize that being is part of that process.
Speaker A:Yep.
Speaker D:So like being able to just show up with my and serve clients or whatever, that's part of this renewal process.
Speaker A:Yep.
Speaker A:Yep.
Speaker A:That doesn't sound formulaic at all.
Speaker A:Charles is talking about the difference between like, doing and being.
Speaker A:A lot of Christianity we've experienced is all the weight is on doing and not doing.
Speaker A:Being, like just being present with God.
Speaker A:The thing I hear the most from people like Ross, I can't sit still for five minutes with God.
Speaker A:I just can't do it.
Speaker A:My brain doesn't work that way.
Speaker A:It does.
Speaker A:You're just beating yourself up for the distractions.
Speaker A:Every distraction is an opportunity to turn back to God.
Speaker A:Like learning how to be is like the thing of our times.
Speaker A:Over here, Alicia.
Speaker A:The difference between compliance and surrender.
Speaker D:So when you do compliance, you know the end result because you have complied.
Speaker D:Yes.
Speaker D:You know your results.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker D:And that is satisfying.
Speaker D:Surrender is not always satisfying.
Speaker A:Oh.
Speaker A:Oh, no.
Speaker A:Oh, my.
Speaker A:Compliance.
Speaker A:We want compliance because we.
Speaker A:Oh, Lord, help me.
Speaker A:This is my whole life.
Speaker A:I want to do the compliance thing because I know that I can control the result.
Speaker A:I can get the result that I want.
Speaker A:Go ahead, music team, if you want to step on up.
Speaker A:What's that?
Speaker A:Oh, Ellie's changing the song.
Speaker A:She's surrendering.
Speaker A:She's making a choice.
Speaker A:Walking into newness of life.
Speaker A:Compliance.
Speaker A:I can control the outcome that I want, but I also take out some things that might be beautiful to experience.
Speaker A:Surrendering, as Alicia said, like, it can be right and hard at the same time.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:Really quick, before I want to.
Speaker A:Ooh, before we go to that song lyric, this is the last thing.
Speaker A:Nope, not working.
Speaker A:There's a slide in there about how we're going to have to confront our old self.
Speaker A:Oh, it's back.
Speaker A:It's back.
Speaker A:It's come back on my phone.
Speaker A:Sweet.
Speaker A:Right there.
Speaker A:Practically for me, I'm going to have to accept that for the rest of my life.
Speaker A:Like I tell you guys, when I get up to go to work in the morning, my ego is ready to go with me.
Speaker A:My old self, although I'm endeavoring to let it die and be buried with Christ, my old self is still like, hi, how are you?
Speaker A:So I have to be hungry and humble and willing to keep deal like, to keep doing the confrontation with this oldness of life, I have to want to see it.
Speaker A:The problem with those of us who aren't in recovery is we have the luxury.
Speaker A:And by mean luxury, I mean the poverty of being able to hold on to our denial.
Speaker A:And it won't kill us.
Speaker A:Like Cassie said, if she held onto her denial, it would have killed her.
Speaker A:If we hang onto ours, it's kind of killing us, too.
Speaker A:But the good news is that, like, if we're humble, hungry, willing, and we say, like, God, I just want to abide in the vine.
Speaker A:I just want to abide and let you prune some things so the newness of life grows.
Speaker A:It will happen.
Speaker A:It will.
Speaker A:And it'll go like this, but it'll be beautiful, freeing, mysterious, and it matters for all of us.
Speaker B:Thank you for participating in the conversation happening at Heaven Earth Church.
Speaker B:Your next opportunity to do so live is this Sunday morning, 9:30am Eastern Time, either at the main campus at 309 East Main in Whiteland, Indiana, or online at YouTube Live.
Speaker B:That's@YouTube.com the audio podcast is always available at Apple Podcast and on Spotify.
Speaker B:You can help others find out about the Heaven Earth Church podcast by going to Apple Podcasts and or Spotify and leaving a five star rating in your review.
Speaker B:Instructions on how to do just that and links are in the show notes.
Speaker B:You can always find out more by going to the church website heavenearthchurch.org we.
Speaker A:Want to thank you for spending time with us today.
Speaker A:My name is Ross Stackhouse, the pastor to Heaven Earth Church, and you may think out there that your story is over, but in fact, your faith story may just be beginning.
Speaker A:If you want more information about our church or you're interested in a next step, you can go to heavenearthchurch.org Otherwise, we look forward to being with you next time at the Heaven Earth Church podcast.
