Episode 22
On FIRE!: The Holy Spirit and 1 Corinthians 12 - A Sunday Conversation with Pastor Ross Stackhouse
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Heaven Earth Church, under the leadership of founding pastor Ross Stackhouse, has embarked on a transformative journey aimed at inclusivity and community engagement. The church was established with the profound intention of welcoming individuals who have felt marginalized or out of place within traditional religious settings. This podcast episode delves into the heartfelt narratives of those who now consider Heaven Earth Church their spiritual home. Each story is a testament to the resilience of faith, particularly among those who identify as misfits within conventional church frameworks. Stackhouse emphasizes the importance of honoring personal stories, positing that every individual’s journey is intertwined with God’s grand narrative. As listeners are invited to explore these personal accounts, they are reminded of the universal search for belonging and the rediscovery of faith that resonates within the community.
A significant focus of this episode is the church's commitment to addressing pressing societal challenges, particularly the issue of affordable housing in Johnson County. Stackhouse, along with Amanda Ott, the president of the Johnson County Housing Coalition, discusses the establishment of their nonprofit initiative, originally named Heaven Earth Spaces, now known as Spaces for All. This initiative arose from a clear and urgent need for accessible housing options, as many families and nonprofit organizations grapple with exorbitant rental prices. Through their collaborative efforts, the coalition strives to create sustainable living conditions for low to moderate-income households, promoting a model wherein individuals allocate only 25-30% of their income towards housing. The episode underscores the church's mission of social justice and community support, positioning their faith-driven endeavors as both a spiritual and practical response to societal needs.
Furthermore, the podcast explores the theological implications of their work, positing that the church's mission extends beyond mere charity; it is an embodiment of Christ's teachings about love and neighborly care. Stackhouse articulates the belief that through acts of compassion, such as advocating for affordable housing, the church fulfills its divine calling. This episode challenges listeners to reflect on their role within the community, urging them to consider how they can contribute to a more equitable society. By intertwining personal stories, community advocacy, and theological reflection, Heaven Earth Church seeks to ignite a passionate response from its congregation, encouraging them to engage actively in the transformative work God is doing through them in their locality.
Takeaways:
- Heaven Earth Church aims to be an inclusive community for individuals who do not conform to traditional church norms.
- The church's mission is to meet people at their current life stage and honor their unique stories.
- Affordable housing is a significant challenge in Johnson County, impacting families and organizations alike.
- Heaven Earth Spaces, now known as Spaces for All, was established to address the need for affordable spaces in the community.
- The Johnson County Housing Coalition advocates for alignment between households' financial capabilities and their housing needs.
- Spiritual gifts are essential for community unity, and each person possesses unique contributions to offer.
Links referenced in this episode:
Companies mentioned in this episode:
- Heaven Earth Church
- Johnson County Housing Coalition
- Upstream
- Spaces for All
- Aspire
- Indianapolis Metropolitan Planning Organization
Transcript
Welcome to Heaven Earth Church.
Speaker A:My name is Ross Stackhouse.
Speaker A:I'm the founding pastor of Heaven Earth Church.
Speaker A:From the beginning, our heart was to be a church for people who don't fit neatly into church.
Speaker A:Our heart is to meet people where they are, to learn their stories, to honor their stories.
Speaker A:Because in every human story is God's story.
Speaker A:In this podcast, you'll hear more about the people who now call Heaven Earth Church home.
Speaker A:Their stories, in many cases of misfits who are discovering or rediscovering faith.
Speaker A:If you want to know more about us, you can go to heavenorthchurch.org Otherwise, we invite you now into the story.
Speaker B:Hello, good people.
Speaker B:Brad Miller here, the producer of the Heaven Earth Church podcast.
Speaker B:One of the main benefits of being a part of the Heaven Earth Church community is our Sunday morning conversations taught by founding pastor Ross Stackhouse.
Speaker B:You can watch and participate in the Sunday morning conversation this Sunday morning, 9:30am Eastern time at YouTube.com heavenerthchurch.
Speaker B: ,: Speaker A:My name is Ross.
Speaker A:I'm a pastor here at Heaven Earth Church.
Speaker A:I have sitting next to me Amanda Ott, who is the president of the Johnson County Housing Coalition.
Speaker A:So I'm going to ask her a question in just a minute.
Speaker A: ut in case you don't know, in: Speaker A:We did it out of a pragmatic situation, but we also did it because we kept seeing this need throughout Johnson county.
Speaker A:That affordable space is very hard to come by, both for families and nonprofit organizations that are growing.
Speaker A:And so Heaven Earth Spaces owns this building.
Speaker A:We lease out the lower level for $6 per square foot per year.
Speaker A:The market rate is roughly at best like 18 to $35 per square foot per year.
Speaker A:So Justin Roebling will crunch up the math for you.
Speaker A:He'll get that going for you in just a minute.
Speaker A:Tell you how that works.
Speaker A:Oh, thank you.
Speaker A:Yes, the United Methodist Church.
Speaker A:I'm an ordained United Methodist elder.
Speaker A:Heaven Earth Church is a United Methodist Church initiative.
Speaker A:This church closed down.
Speaker A: s congregation closed down in: Speaker A:And they approached us and said, hey, do you have any Interest in this.
Speaker A:And at the time, the answer was a big fat no.
Speaker A:We didn't even know if we were going to have a Sunday gathering when our church started.
Speaker A:We thought we might just be a network of like house churches.
Speaker A:The roof was leaking, the basement was flooding.
Speaker A:The bats had lived here for ages.
Speaker A:They still live here.
Speaker A:We've tried those.
Speaker A:They're smart creatures, man.
Speaker A:Yeah, yeah, that's right.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:Oh, come on, P.T.
Speaker A:he said make them members.
Speaker A:You'll never see them again.
Speaker A:That was nice.
Speaker A:That was good.
Speaker A:Good timing on that.
Speaker A:So we also own a house over here which is part of the work of the Johnson County Housing Coalition.
Speaker A:We rent that also about 50% of market rate ish, depending on what your estimates are.
Speaker A:And it's part of our residency rental program.
Speaker A:So Heaven Earth Spaces is now called Spaces for All.
Speaker A:And we started an initiative in partnership with Upstream called the Johnson County Housing Coalition.
Speaker A:Amanda learned about seven minutes ago that I was going to ask her to do this, so give her a round of applause.
Speaker A:What does the housing coalition do, Amanda?
Speaker A:Yeah, let's hear it.
Speaker C:For the county is that we would see households financial abilities line up with their housing.
Speaker C:So we're hoping and in a ideal world that they would be paying like 25 to 30% of their income for housing.
Speaker C:And that's not the case right now.
Speaker C:Some of our households pay like up to 50 to 60% of their annual income to housing, which is just not feasible.
Speaker C:And it kind of leaves our community really unhealthy in that they make really difficult decisions about what they're going to pay for and when they're going to pay for.
Speaker C:And you know, maybe they don't go, maybe they don't have medication that month or maybe they can't fix their car or they're supplementing with a lot of different pantries around the county.
Speaker C:And it's just not a.
Speaker C:It's not a sustainable model for our community.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:So we.
Speaker A:I wasn't looking for an answer.
Speaker A:Part of what the coalition does is advocacy and just raising awareness.
Speaker A:So Anda and Amanda has gone around to.
Speaker A:I mean, different groups like Aspire, Johnson County.
Speaker A:Who else?
Speaker C:City officials, county officials, different community groups, Rotary, things like that.
Speaker C:Just to sort of talk about it.
Speaker C:People are generally under unaware if the problem doesn't affect them.
Speaker C:But.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker C:A lot of households that we're talking about are just graduated out of college or high school, single parents, those working in service, or even like police, fire, things like that.
Speaker C:All our households that are are low to moderate income.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:So we've spoken.
Speaker A:Amanda has.
Speaker A:I have also voter forms.
Speaker A:And so one thing we often share is just a quick like how this affects our community.
Speaker A: point that since I think it's: Speaker A:The sale prices of homes went up 30% over 30.
Speaker A:Rental prices for houses went up over 20%.
Speaker A:And in that same time, wages went up less than 9%.
Speaker A:Karen Fruits can help you.
Speaker A:She's just recently retired as a calculus teacher.
Speaker A:She can help you understand that ain't gonna work.
Speaker A:Okay?
Speaker A:The math doesn't math.
Speaker A:And so affordable housing generally is defined as 30% of your income.
Speaker A:So think of it this way.
Speaker A:If you have a single parent household, single income household, or your household income is $60,000, all right, that means your, your housing cannot cost you more than $1,500 a month.
Speaker A:Karen, did I get that right?
Speaker A:30%.
Speaker A:30% of.
Speaker A:Yeah, let's see.
Speaker A: % would be: Speaker A:Yes.
Speaker A:Thank you.
Speaker A: Johnson county for less than: Speaker A:Not a lot.
Speaker A:Not a lot at all.
Speaker C:Maybe studios.
Speaker A:Maybe studios.
Speaker A:You can get a studio apartment.
Speaker A:You and your three kids can be in a one bedroom apartment.
Speaker A:So why on earth would would a person who belongs to Jesus want to do such a thing?
Speaker A:Why would a church be interested in such a thing?
Speaker C:Good question, Ross.
Speaker A:I thought it was pretty good too.
Speaker C:Well, someone recently told me that the mission of this particular church is to make a lasting impact in the community.
Speaker C:Because I didn't know what our mission was, but I would say it's there every week.
Speaker C:A few days ago.
Speaker C:But generally speaking, I just think that as Christians, we are just called to care for one another and that just isn't caring for our community because housing touches everything.
Speaker C:So if you ask a teacher, you know about students, I've actually had a teacher come to me and she said, well, I've had this student and they've been in five different schools.
Speaker C:And the reality of it is if they had stable housing, everything would look different for them because they would have been in one school.
Speaker C:You know, they feel safe, they feel seen, and they can come to school and actually like participate in school life, whereas floating in and out, you know, it's hard for them to make friends, it's hard for them to stay focused on curriculum.
Speaker C:Their curriculum can be different school to school.
Speaker C:So I mean, there's just so many different reasons why we should care as a community, but especially as Christians, because we're just, you know, called to love each other.
Speaker C:That's part of it, yep.
Speaker A:And one of our three discipleship essentials here is grace and the great commands.
Speaker A:At the core, the great commands are, number one, love the Lord your God with all your heart, mind, soul, and strength.
Speaker A:And the second is, like it, Jesus says to love your neighbor as.
Speaker A:So that just really easily means practically, if I were in my neighbor's shoes, what kind of consideration and love would I hope to receive?
Speaker A:You know?
Speaker A:And so, like Amanda's saying, we're trying to think of our neighbors, trying to think of issues that maybe don't affect us, like, directly, though they do.
Speaker A:So that's why we're about this work.
Speaker A:So lastly, the Johnson County Housing Coalition and Spaces for all is doing Dancing with the Johnson County Stars.
Speaker C:We got forced into it, but we're.
Speaker A:We'Re, we're making a habit.
Speaker A:We had a, we had a dancer who said, well, I'll dance for you.
Speaker A:We're like, well, I guess we're in then.
Speaker A:Yeah, so we are.
Speaker A:So there is a purse bingo coming up.
Speaker A:Purse bingos are a thing I'm finding out.
Speaker C:Yeah, we.
Speaker C:Ross and I knew nothing about it.
Speaker C:He has, I'm assuming, zero purses, and I have one.
Speaker A:I'm not against it, but I just haven't.
Speaker A:I haven't gotten one yet.
Speaker A:Maybe I will at the purse bingo.
Speaker C:It is on August 7th, and it's $35 a person.
Speaker C:We would love to have you.
Speaker C:I've told that they're a lot of fun.
Speaker C:If you don't love purses, there's also some baskets that we'll raffle off, which I think are probably going to be a lot more fun than the purses.
Speaker C:We have some of our own people that have already donated some fun baskets.
Speaker C:So you'll see some art and flowers and all kinds of fun things that will be raffled off each one.
Speaker C:So we would love for you to come.
Speaker C:It's at the Elks in Franklin.
Speaker C:What else?
Speaker C:There will be a taco bar.
Speaker C:And so if you would like to have supper there, you can, can pay $10.
Speaker C:And while supplies last, you have access to the yummy taco bar.
Speaker C:We'd love to have you.
Speaker A:Yep.
Speaker A:Give Amanda a round of applause.
Speaker A:That's pretty good for late notice.
Speaker A:Good job.
Speaker A:If you go to spacesforall.org spacesforall.org you can read, you can find out about our mission.
Speaker A:But also there is everything you need to know on the home page about the purse.
Speaker A:Bingo.
Speaker A:And you can also stay up to speed on what we're doing, our fourth commute, fourth community.
Speaker A:Core value is we want to bless the community through partnership.
Speaker A:Spaces for all is one of our primary partnerships.
Speaker A:Let's pray and then have our Sunday conversation.
Speaker A:Speak to us, Lord.
Speaker A:We're listening.
Speaker A:Help us to hear, Help us to understand.
Speaker A:Help us to live inspired.
Speaker A:I ask that you ignite every person in here made in your image, the name of Jesus.
Speaker A:Amen.
Speaker A:Forgot one thing.
Speaker A:Speaking of being ignited, maybe you've had the smallest nudge to take a big next step in your faith.
Speaker A:One of the ways to do that, a big way, a great way to do that, is through baptism.
Speaker A:So today, right after our gathering, we're going to talk, like, why would you take that step?
Speaker A:So maybe for you, you're going to be exploring, reaffirming your baptism.
Speaker A:So you've been baptized before, but now you're at a place where you want to reclaim that.
Speaker A:You want to.
Speaker A:You want to walk in that more significantly more seriously.
Speaker A:Maybe you've never been baptized.
Speaker A:You don't know what it is.
Speaker A:It's weird to you, like, why am I going to get dunked in water?
Speaker A:That seems bizarre.
Speaker A:Come talk about it right after church today.
Speaker A:If you come.
Speaker A:We're not.
Speaker A:You're not signing up to, to get dunked up here.
Speaker A:Okay.
Speaker A:You just.
Speaker A:You want to know more and that's good.
Speaker A:So.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:Did I miss any other announcements?
Speaker A:I feel like I may have skipped something.
Speaker A:No, we good.
Speaker A:There's a game tonight too, I think, right?
Speaker A:It's a big announcement.
Speaker A:Let's go, Pacers.
Speaker A:Last week I talked about how one of the things I think we're struggling with in Christianity in our neck of the woods is that we've tried so hard to organize it all.
Speaker A:One of our, like, golden calves, our idols, the things we want so bad in Christianity is absolute certainty about everything.
Speaker A:Some of the churches I was a part of was.
Speaker A:It was like, if you weren't absolutely certain about these list of doctrines, then you weren't actually a Christian.
Speaker A:You needed help, you needed prayer, right?
Speaker A:But when I look at the very first movement of Jesus followers, it was marked by a lot of disorganization, not of like the really bad kind that makes you feel anxious.
Speaker A:Some of you are very organized planners.
Speaker A:How many of you in the room?
Speaker A:You're like, I'm a planner, man.
Speaker A:I gotta have it all together.
Speaker A:How many of you in here love spontaneity?
Speaker A:Like, you just love to go with the flow.
Speaker A:Do you see how that's 50, 50 in here, about.
Speaker A:Okay, 50, 50, right.
Speaker A:Imagine how the first followers of Jesus felt all the time.
Speaker A:It was like waking up and where are we going today?
Speaker A:And the first movement was like that.
Speaker A:The only promise that Jesus gave them.
Speaker A:He said, like, I will give you this Holy Spirit, the presence of God inside you, who will lead you and guide you to do the things I'm calling you to do.
Speaker A:Now, some of the planners in the room.
Speaker A:And I love you, you help me out a lot.
Speaker A:I'm more of a spontaneity guy.
Speaker A:Do you know.
Speaker A:Did you know poor Brandon last week was leading music?
Speaker A:And it was just like, I don't know what songs we're going to do today.
Speaker A:We're going to see.
Speaker A:And Joanna.
Speaker A:Sorry, yes.
Speaker A:I think I probably said Brandon because Joanna and I are a little more practiced together in that spontaneity.
Speaker A:Brandon has never been late once to music practice and stuff.
Speaker A:So this poor guy.
Speaker A:But Jesus says, like, I'm going to give you the Holy Spirit, who's going to lead you in what you are to do.
Speaker A:And rightly, one of them could have said, so what's the plan, Jesus?
Speaker A:And then he left.
Speaker A:No playbook, no plan, no strategy, except what he had shown him for them for the three previous years.
Speaker A:How many of you are going to be good with that?
Speaker A:They weren't.
Speaker A:They weren't either.
Speaker A:They had to learn this discipline.
Speaker A:I call it the Cornelius principle because of a story in Acts, chapter 10 of Getting Just enough vision for just the next step.
Speaker A:Just enough vision for just the next step.
Speaker A:Many of us want enough vision for the next 30 steps.
Speaker A:Am I right?
Speaker A:Show me the next 30 steps.
Speaker A:I need that.
Speaker A:I must have it.
Speaker A:And sometimes we get that in our walk with Jesus.
Speaker A:Sometimes we get a vision of where we're going to end up in, like, five years.
Speaker A:We get that.
Speaker A:We get a sense of how we're going to get there.
Speaker A:A lot of times, though, we don't.
Speaker A:We get just enough vision for just the next step.
Speaker A:And Jesus promises that not only will we get that vision for the next step, that we will get the very person of God dwelling inside of us to help us see that next step and help to take it.
Speaker A:Help us to take it.
Speaker A:So I'm going to tell you a story, and I'm going to ask you a question in a minute.
Speaker A:You got to help with the sermon today.
Speaker A:You know the drill.
Speaker A:So a version of that for us was some of, you know this story, if you know it Sorry.
Speaker A:Not sorry, because it's cool.
Speaker A:It's a very cool God story.
Speaker A: In: Speaker A:Our launch team was supposed to have a meeting on a Monday night.
Speaker A:I think it was at Taxman Brewery.
Speaker A:Bunch of degenerates going to have a church meeting and drink.
Speaker A:No, we weren't.
Speaker A:I'm just kidding.
Speaker A:We weren't.
Speaker A:We didn't plan to drink.
Speaker A:We just needed a place to meet.
Speaker A:Okay, well, Tax man, at that time, I don't know if they still are closed on Mondays.
Speaker A:And so just enough vision for just the next step.
Speaker A:We went over to this place nearby, Johnson's Barbecue Shack, and we met there.
Speaker A:And I started talking with the owner.
Speaker A:I was like, hey, if.
Speaker A:If we were to, like, want to need a place to gather on Sundays, could we meet here?
Speaker A:He said, sure.
Speaker A:How much would you charge us for that?
Speaker A:Nothing.
Speaker A:Oh, well, that's.
Speaker A:That's a good price.
Speaker A:It's a deal.
Speaker A:So that started this relationship.
Speaker A:Over time, I got to know.
Speaker A:I would go there all the time and just talk with the servers there.
Speaker A:Just enough vision for just the next step.
Speaker A:Sometimes I'd wake up on a Tuesday and be like, I'm going to Johnson's today.
Speaker A:That's going to be my office today.
Speaker A:And we got to know them, built relationships with them.
Speaker A:We started hosting trivia nights there.
Speaker A:Four benefit trivia nights.
Speaker A:So we'd have Harry Potter trivia night at Johnson's barbecue.
Speaker A:We'd have a dine to donate there, featuring a local nonprofit.
Speaker A:We'd give the nonprofit executive director more time to speak than me, which you guys know is hard for me, right?
Speaker A:I like to talk.
Speaker A:Did you know we got a message from the owner once who said, thank you.
Speaker A:You guys helped us to pay our payroll this month when their staff had a tragedy, a huge tragedy.
Speaker A:The first call they made was to us.
Speaker A:And as part of one of our Sunday gatherings there, we had.
Speaker A:We started have breakfast at Johnson's.
Speaker A:We had a celebration of life as a part of our breakfast there that day.
Speaker A:We met people there who in the last five months, six months, have shown back up in the life of our church.
Speaker A:And somebody who works there.
Speaker A:Hi.
Speaker A:Maggie is considering reaffirming her baptism by just getting enough vision for just the next step and trusting in that holy Spirit and going with the Holy Spirit.
Speaker A:Wild, magnificent, wonderful things happened in that relationship.
Speaker A:So here's my question to you.
Speaker A:Now we got a group here.
Speaker A:Remember that?
Speaker A:When's that happened?
Speaker A:For you when you took.
Speaker A:You listened to the nudge of the Holy Spirit, got just enough vision for just the next step, and followed it.
Speaker A:When's that happen for you?
Speaker A:Can you think of a time?
Speaker A:There you go.
Speaker A:That is what I'm looking for, by the way.
Speaker A:Yeah, good story.
Speaker A:You got just enough vision, a nudge from God for just the next step.
Speaker A:You took it, and it ended up being a great blessing to you.
Speaker A:Yeah, well, as they.
Speaker A:No, I'm not going to do it.
Speaker A:I'm not going to do it.
Speaker A:I'm not going to do it.
Speaker A:Evan.
Speaker A:All right, all right.
Speaker A:What else, Jill?
Speaker D:A little bit longer story and kind of a big one, but my lady husband, he lived on the golf course, and there were only three full houses.
Speaker D:I ran at times, as I did a whole street narrative.
Speaker D:Said whenever anybody started building on either side of us, we would.
Speaker D:We would find land, build a house, etc.
Speaker D: I lost him in October of: Speaker D:And right at the same time, the stakes for building went up on not just one side of our house, but both sides of our house, like, at the same time.
Speaker D:And so I'm like, as a physician trying to practice in the pandemic on the front lines, had lost my husband four months before.
Speaker D:And I got a call from a friend who's a realtor, and she's like, hey, that piece of land.
Speaker D:Thank you, angel.
Speaker D:With that years and years ago, was sold, but it's not on the market yet, but it's for sale again.
Speaker D:I'm like, are you interested?
Speaker D:And I was like, probably the last thing I need to be doing right now is buying a piece of land.
Speaker D:Like, we were lucky to get through the day at that point.
Speaker D:I was like, you know, I feel like I'm afraid about it.
Speaker D:I was like, I feel like this is what I should do.
Speaker D:I'm going to buy it.
Speaker D:If, you know, I chicken out, I can sell it.
Speaker D:You know, I'm not committing.
Speaker D:So I buy it, and then probably a week later, they start moving equipment in on both sides of our house.
Speaker D:And I realize I have two trees there that I'm not going to leave that house without.
Speaker D:And I'm like, okay, if I'm ever going to get these trees moved, like, I have to do it now because we're going to lose access.
Speaker D:And so reach out to a builder who said, I don't know anything about trees.
Speaker D:I said, I don't want to talk about house plans yet, but I need to have somebody tell me if these trees can be moved.
Speaker D:Because if not, I'm like, I'll sell the land.
Speaker D:I'm not leaving this house without these two trees.
Speaker D:And so he's like, I don't know.
Speaker D:He's like.
Speaker D:But I'll, you know, he's like, I know somebody that does, and I'll send him to you.
Speaker D:If I was at him.
Speaker D:And he moved my two trees.
Speaker D:And over that next year, when the pandemic was raging and we couldn't really be in person, really with anybody, we were able to meet a new property and even put in the driveway so we could get the trees in there and just like, all of those things and build that relationship.
Speaker A:And.
Speaker A:And now there's a two trees flower farm also, right?
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:If you haven't heard Jill's two trees story, you should hear it.
Speaker A:It's certainly a God story.
Speaker A:That's magnificent.
Speaker A:Thank you for sharing, Jill.
Speaker A:Anybody else?
Speaker A:You got just enough vision, Angela.
Speaker C:So much vision about taking the next step.
Speaker C:But for me, I'm.
Speaker C:I tend to be, like, an obstructionist, so it's like, enough vision to, like, get out of the way.
Speaker C:And I've told people, a lot of people, this story about how I didn't want to be a pastor's wife.
Speaker C:And, like, I didn't marry Ross knowing that he was going to be a pastor, but when his sister floated his first pastoral opportunity, she's also a pastor, so she, like, let him know about this opportunity.
Speaker C:He had to do a practice sermon as part of his application process.
Speaker C:And he had never, like, we'd been together at that point in time, I don't know, like, seven years, including dating.
Speaker C:And I'd never seen him public speak ever.
Speaker C:And I went to his practice sermon along with basically the entire congregation at the other church.
Speaker C:And he was a really talented speaker, which I felt.
Speaker C:I feel is a gift from God.
Speaker C:So I felt like I needed to, like, acquiesce and.
Speaker C:And then it led to, like, this and all of these other beautiful things at our old church, too, which is really cool.
Speaker A:Sorry for that.
Speaker A:It is.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:So I.
Speaker A:It was.
Speaker A:This is such a cliche story, but it's totally true.
Speaker A:When I said I was going to go to grad school, Angela, like, cleared with me.
Speaker A:Hey, you're not going to go.
Speaker A:This isn't ending up in a pastor thing.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:And I'm like, yeah, right.
Speaker A:No way.
Speaker A:Angel was raised Baptist, which meant that Angela should be playing the piano also on Sundays as well.
Speaker A:So get over here and do something for us, would you?
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:She shared that.
Speaker A:She was there.
Speaker A:I preached the first sermon I'd ever preached.
Speaker A:I never preached, never took a preaching class, anything.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:Anybody else?
Speaker A:Angie, Audition sermon thing?
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker C:And I'm here because of that very first time.
Speaker D:I was best gifted.
Speaker D:And I think that that is what it's led my heart to continue this faith journey and live well.
Speaker A:Angie, you've been a huge blessing to us.
Speaker A:Angelica.
Speaker A:Angie comes from Zionsville every Sunday and gives so much to our church.
Speaker A:So I'm going to transition on that point because my gifts are getting highlighted.
Speaker A:So let me highlight yours.
Speaker A:Okay.
Speaker A:Let's get me out of the spotlight for a minute and get you in the spotlight for the rest of the time.
Speaker A:Okay.
Speaker A:Let me set the stage for scripture.
Speaker A:I'm going to just.
Speaker A:I'm going to walk you through very quickly.
Speaker A:Okay.
Speaker A:Corinth is a city in Greece.
Speaker A:You good?
Speaker A:You.
Speaker A:You still with me, right?
Speaker A:Ancient Corinth was like.
Speaker A:I think I've said this before, like Las Vegas or maybe New York City, something like that.
Speaker A:A lot of trade coming through because there's Greece, mainland Greece, southern Greece, and right in between them, there's this thing called an isthmus.
Speaker A:And right there is Corinth.
Speaker A:So a lot of trade came through right there from west to east.
Speaker A:So this was a happening place.
Speaker A:Happening place.
Speaker A:And it's one of the first places.
Speaker A:This guy by the name of Paul, you want to talk about being led by the Holy Spirit.
Speaker A:This guy was persecuting the Jesus movement.
Speaker A:Watched and.
Speaker A:And was happy as the very first martyr was killed in his presence at his feet.
Speaker A:He was like, okay, I'm doing a good job.
Speaker A:This is great.
Speaker A:Good job.
Speaker A:Paul.
Speaker A:Saul, he met Jesus and gave up everything to go and plant churches in whose legacy we now sit.
Speaker A:And one of those communities was in Corinth.
Speaker A:And so they were dealing with a lot of challenges.
Speaker A:This community, think Las Vegas, New York City, people trying to be a unified community following Jesus.
Speaker A:Oh, in a time when you weren't supposed to be thinking, anybody else is Lord except the emperor.
Speaker A:One of their biggest issues, though, was that they were dividing into these camps, and the one camp thought the other camp was the devil.
Speaker A:It's a weird concept.
Speaker A:We've never experienced this.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:Do you know what I'm talking about?
Speaker A:Where, like, two camps divide and one camp thinks the other camp is Satan.
Speaker A:Have you ever heard of such a thing?
Speaker A:You'll have to use your imagination.
Speaker A:Okay.
Speaker A:They were splitting into different.
Speaker A:The church began, and then five minutes later, people were splitting up into groups, and they Were going that other camp over there.
Speaker A:Those people eat food, sacrifice to idols.
Speaker A:Oh, my God.
Speaker A:Because they would go to the marketplace and the folks, the pagans who had sacrificed certain things and offered it to Apollo, they would sell it in the marketplace.
Speaker A:And then it'd be like, Billy Schwerkinson, who would walk by in the marketplace, he'd see some meat for sale and be like, that sounds good.
Speaker A:I'm gonna have that for supper tonight.
Speaker A:Boom.
Speaker A:And then there would be this other Christian who'd be like, did you guys see what Billy just did?
Speaker A:So they were dealing with that.
Speaker A:They were dealing with some other things that I won't go into detail with very much.
Speaker A:Reality TV show kind of stuff.
Speaker A:Use your imagination.
Speaker A:Relationships that shouldn't be crossing lines.
Speaker A:They were crossing them.
Speaker A:All right.
Speaker A:Did I tell you it was Las Vegas?
Speaker A:But they were splitting up into these groups and everybody thought were the right ones.
Speaker A:And so Paul wrote this chapter I'm going to read to you in response to help them out.
Speaker A:He wrote them a letter after he had moved on.
Speaker A:I've told you, NT Wright says when we read parts of the New Testament, it's like we're stealing somebody's mail.
Speaker A:Which I think is a felony, isn't it?
Speaker A:Is that a felony?
Speaker A:So, all right, you can say the guy at church made us all felons today.
Speaker A:Sounds weird.
Speaker A:Why is he talking about this?
Speaker A:Brothers and sisters, I don't want you to be ignorant about spiritual gifts.
Speaker A:Why would he bring this up with all the things they're struggling with?
Speaker A:Why is this the play with all the issues they're dealing with?
Speaker A:Why close that?
Speaker A:He's starting to end the letter.
Speaker A:Why would you go here?
Speaker A:I don't want you to be ignorant about spiritual gifts.
Speaker A:Why is that the medicine that these people need to take?
Speaker A:Well, good news.
Speaker A:We're going to figure that out.
Speaker A:You know that you, when you were Gentiles, people who didn't belong to the tribes of Israel, if you don't know what that is, you're often misled by false gods that can't even speak.
Speaker A:So that's a little bit of like, hey, can you remember where you came from?
Speaker A:You guys promoted yourselves awfully quickly.
Speaker A:Five minutes after you started following Jesus, you promoted yourself, huh?
Speaker A:So I want to make it clear to you that no one says Jesus is cursed when speaking by God's spirit.
Speaker A:And no one can say Jesus is Lord except by the.
Speaker A:This is your turn.
Speaker A:Okay.
Speaker A:And no one can say Jesus is Lord except by the.
Speaker A:Why is he saying this?
Speaker A:Why is this the medicine that they need to take in.
Speaker A:They're splitting up into factions.
Speaker A:They're being self righteous.
Speaker A:They're crossing lines that you really shouldn't be crossing, like, ever.
Speaker A:They're playing favorites in their communities.
Speaker A:Why is this the medicine?
Speaker A:I'll keep reading.
Speaker A:There are different spiritual gifts, but the same.
Speaker A:This is your turn.
Speaker A:There are different spiritual gifts, but the same.
Speaker A:And they're different ministries in the same.
Speaker A:And there are different activities but.
Speaker A:But the same God who produces all of them in.
Speaker A:Oh, here it is.
Speaker A:A demonstration of the Spirit is given to.
Speaker A:For the.
Speaker A:A demonstration of the spirit is given to.
Speaker A:For the.
Speaker A:Do you fit into the category of each person?
Speaker A:Do you?
Speaker A:I don't.
Speaker A:I'm not a grammar expert, but I think that would mean.
Speaker A:I think each person means like all of you, I think.
Speaker A:Pretty sure.
Speaker A:Why is this the medicine that they need to take?
Speaker A:Here's why.
Speaker A:For the story that Angela just told about me.
Speaker A:The first sermon I ever preached, I could have walked away from that.
Speaker A:I could have walked away after I preached my first sermon ever.
Speaker A:No preaching classes.
Speaker A:Oh, man, I'm an awfully smart fella.
Speaker A:I took Greek.
Speaker A:I can read ancient Greek.
Speaker A:Look at me.
Speaker A:Oh, man.
Speaker A:Man, I'm actually pretty good public speaker.
Speaker A:I could gain a pretty good following.
Speaker A:I could have a private jet in like 10 years.
Speaker A:Could start a TV ministry, get a jet, start flying around to preach the gospel to the nations.
Speaker A:Yes, I could walk away like that.
Speaker A:Or I could.
Speaker A:I could walk away as I did.
Speaker A:I went home and I was like this, like, how could this be?
Speaker A:How has this happened to me?
Speaker A:How can I preach like that?
Speaker A:How could this be happening to me?
Speaker A:I think I'm about to work in a church.
Speaker A:I don't like church.
Speaker A:Church makes me so frustrated.
Speaker A:I definitely don't want to work in one of these institutional churches.
Speaker A:I don't want to do that.
Speaker A:But how was I able to preach like that?
Speaker A:Today, a demonstration of the Spirit is given to each person for the common good.
Speaker A:I could walk away with this pride, like I did that, or I could walk away with the humbling understanding that God did that in me and through me.
Speaker A:I asked you, I told you this story about, like, for the first Christians, there was life before they caught the fire of the Holy Spirit and life after they would.
Speaker A:They had been with Jesus for three years.
Speaker A:They weren't on fire yet.
Speaker A:There was life before they met Jesus and life after that is true.
Speaker A:But just because they had encountered Jesus and followed him, they weren't on fire by the Holy Spirit.
Speaker A:Yet that happened in a story in Acts, chapter two.
Speaker A:It didn't mean they didn't have anything.
Speaker A:Remember this?
Speaker A:That gone it.
Speaker A:Sorry, Brandon.
Speaker A:We'll fix it in a minute.
Speaker A:All of us born like this, all of us have the image of God inside.
Speaker A:A flickering flame of God.
Speaker A:And it is good.
Speaker A:Sometimes you're doing God's stuff and you don't even know it.
Speaker A:And you're not even aware of it.
Speaker A:And you're doing it because you have God's image inside you.
Speaker A:You don't even know it yet.
Speaker A:This is good.
Speaker A:This is what we're made for.
Speaker A:To be completely on fire with the very person of God dwelling in us, igniting these gifts that are in there.
Speaker A:They are in there.
Speaker A: t I experienced in January of: Speaker A:I didn't even know that you could live like this.
Speaker A:Didn't even know it.
Speaker A:And then I knew it.
Speaker A:And now my job in life, I got one job.
Speaker A:At the end of the day, I've told you, first it's for my wife, then my kids, my core relationships.
Speaker A:And you.
Speaker A:I want to help you be here.
Speaker A:I want to help you come alive in the thing that God has gifted you to do.
Speaker A:A demonstration of the spirit is given to me.
Speaker A:All right, let's try again.
Speaker A:You sound.
Speaker A:You don't sound too excited about it.
Speaker A:A demonstration of the spirit is given to.
Speaker A:Let's go.
Speaker A:For the common good.
Speaker A:Every person, you've got something.
Speaker A:You couldn't get rid of it if you tried.
Speaker A:Your destiny is to be ignited in this gifting, not so that you can be like man.
Speaker A:Our group is pretty good.
Speaker A:We're pretty smart.
Speaker A:I think we got it right.
Speaker A:Those people over there belong to Satan.
Speaker A:There's a reason why.
Speaker A:I think it's CS Lewis who said that pride is the complete anti God state of mind.
Speaker A:I think he said something like that.
Speaker A:Somebody fact checked me.
Speaker A:Justin, can you fact check me on that?
Speaker A:He said something like, pride is a complete anti God state of mind.
Speaker A:Our goal is to be on fire and not go like, man, look how cool I am.
Speaker A:No, it's supposed to be like, look what God can do through us, through us.
Speaker A:And then we pass on.
Speaker A:We help fan the flame of somebody else.
Speaker A:And it happens in the ordinary stuff.
Speaker A:I saw it with our church at the.
Speaker A:At the.
Speaker A:The park on Friday.
Speaker A:The ordinary stuff on an ordinary Friday evening.
Speaker A:A guy by the name of Nate brought a friend to the park.
Speaker A:Nate's had his history of life struggles.
Speaker A:If you were sitting right here, he would tell you.
Speaker A:And he brought A friend with him and I watched as our church, like, encircled this dude.
Speaker A:Like, not in a creepy church kind of way.
Speaker A:We've all been there.
Speaker A:New guests, stand up.
Speaker A:We have a basket of goodies for you.
Speaker A:Stand up here.
Speaker A:Come on up and say something, you know, not in a creepy church way.
Speaker A:I watched people as they saw this guy differently.
Speaker A:They saw him as a masterpiece.
Speaker A:Sat next to him as a masterpiece.
Speaker A:Believe this.
Speaker A:And everybody chipped in to, like, help him know how holy his life is.
Speaker A:So I think I'm about done for today.
Speaker A:What time is it now?
Speaker A:Cool.
Speaker A:Action step.
Speaker A:How do we apply this?
Speaker A:Number one, believe it about you.
Speaker A:Believe it about you.
Speaker A:You are part of something so magnificent and glorious.
Speaker A:You are part of a movement to renew all things.
Speaker A:The only thing that you have to do is receive it and cultivate it and share it.
Speaker A:That's is true about you.
Speaker A:This right here.
Speaker A:And so believe it about you.
Speaker A:And number two, believe it about them.
Speaker A:Believe it about them.
Speaker A:So when you're in a meeting this week, as I often joke, and you're in a meeting with the co worker that you hate.
Speaker A:Ross, I don't hate any of my co workers.
Speaker A:I'm a Christian.
Speaker A:I love everybody.
Speaker A:Treat them with kindness.
Speaker A:You're with a co worker who makes you struggle a little bit.
Speaker A:Believe it when you're serving clients.
Speaker A:Believe it when you're checking out at the grocery store.
Speaker A:Believe it when you're at the park.
Speaker A:Believe it when you hop onto Facebook.
Speaker A:Oh, my God.
Speaker A:That dystopian place we call Facebook and social media.
Speaker A:Believe it about you.
Speaker A:Believe it about them.
Speaker A:Live differently.
Speaker A:Seek the Holy Spirit.
Speaker A:All right, I think that's it for me.
Speaker A:What is this making you think and feel?
Speaker A:Is it making you want to do.
Speaker A:What's this making you.
Speaker A:You want to slow down?
Speaker A:Why would you want to do that, Angie?
Speaker A:So I can hear.
Speaker A:I want to slow down so I can hear.
Speaker A:Yeah, I said before that God's reality is God's reality.
Speaker A:That doesn't change our relationship to it is what changes.
Speaker A:It's like when we hear, when we notice, when we listen.
Speaker A:That's what we're just changing our relationship to it.
Speaker A:What else?
Speaker A:What's this making you think, feel, want to do?
Speaker A:There is something in each of us that we can give that is the truth.
Speaker A:That's not a theory.
Speaker A:It is the truth.
Speaker A:That is church.
Speaker A:When a body of people are connected in a mysterious and holy way and we fan the flame of each other's gifts in each other and we help each other, offer them what Else, what's this making you think, feel, want to do?
Speaker A:It feels like a sigh of relief.
Speaker A:Can you say more?
Speaker A:It's a sigh of relief.
Speaker A:It's just good to know.
Speaker A:It is a relief when you're not seeing people's threats.
Speaker A:It's a good thing to see people differently.
Speaker A:Yep.
Speaker A:It's.
Speaker A:It's learning to live almost obsessively about the present moment.
Speaker A:Like, God, help me to abide in you and be led by your spirit today.
Speaker A:Some of the planners right now are like, but, Ross, how do I discover my gift?
Speaker A:Can you point me to the book or the Spiritual Gifts Inventory that tells me what my gift is?
Speaker A:And then I figured out, and then I start living it out?
Speaker A:No, spiritual gifts inventory stink.
Speaker A:They're not any good.
Speaker A:The way you discover your gift is to get in the habit of just practicing presence with God in the moment of every day, and you just start noticing.
Speaker A:You start noticing, like, what?
Speaker A:What did I do today that took relatively little effort, but I was fruitful in it.
Speaker A:What did I learn quickly that maybe others it takes.
Speaker A:It's harder for them.
Speaker A:I'm not better than them, but it's a key.
Speaker A:It's a lens into what I'm uniquely gifted at.
Speaker A:God, show me your presence, Amanda.
Speaker A:Go ahead.
Speaker A:It's already in us.
Speaker A:It's something we cultivate inside us.
Speaker A:That is.
Speaker A:That's kind of like church right there.
Speaker A:It's in the most ordinary things.
Speaker A:If we start to believe that God is in the most mundane of things, we sang it in a song.
Speaker A:The miraculous mundane is still waiting to be seen.
Speaker A:Okay.
Speaker A:Centered is.
Speaker A:Is being centered within yourself and your relationship with God.
Speaker A:Grounded is kind of, you know, getting deeper roots into, like, how you're uniquely gifted to do what you're made to do.
Speaker A:Yeah, I like that.
Speaker A:All right.
Speaker A:Hey, let's stand and sing this last song.
Speaker A:If anybody wants to get the kids, go for it.
Speaker A:Stay the course.
Speaker A:Would you stand with us?
Speaker A:We're just going to close with one chord, a bridge and a chorus to build my life.
Speaker A:So I think what for me, what I keep learning as this.
Speaker A:This fire takes over my life is practically what it looks like to build your life on love.
Speaker A:Because every day I catch in myself that fear inspired living is ready to go all over again the next day.
Speaker A:Maybe I lived in love yesterday and love was leading the way for whatever reason, when I get up the next day, fear is ready to run the show again.
Speaker A:So I have to learn, like, moment to moment, day to day, to let the Holy Spirit lead me in a life that is inspired by love.
Speaker A:So perfect timing.
Speaker A:Thank you for being with us today.
Speaker A:I pray that this week God gives you the ability to open your life, open the sails of your ship to the wind of the Holy Spirit, to take the risk, to leave comfort, leave the control, leave the organization, to step into a life of holy mess with Jesus.
Speaker A:Have a great week.
Speaker B:Thank you for participating in the the conversation happening at Heaven Earth Church.
Speaker B:Your next opportunity to do so live is this Sunday morning, 9:30am Eastern Time, either at the main campus at 309 East Main in Whiteland, Indiana or online at YouTube Live.
Speaker B:That's at YouTube.com heavenerthchurch the audio page podcast is always available at Apple Podcast and on Spotify.
Speaker B:You can help others find out about the Heaven Earth Church podcast by going to Apple Podcasts and or Spotify and leaving a five star rating and your review instructions on how to do just that and links are in the show notes.
Speaker B:You can always find out more by going to the church website heavenearthchurch.org we.
Speaker A:Want to thank you for spending time with us today.
Speaker A:My name is Ross Stackhouse, the pastor to Heaven Earth Church and you may think out there that your story is over, but in fact your faith story may just be beginning.
Speaker A:If you want more information about our church or you're interested in the next step, you can go to heavenorthchurch.org otherwise we look forward to being with you next time at the Heaven Earth Church Podcast.
