Episode 28
ON FIRE!: The Holy Spirit in You
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Heaven Earth Church stands as a beacon of hope and acceptance for those who have often felt like outsiders in traditional religious contexts. Pastor Ross Stackhouse articulates the church's foundational mission: to create a nurturing environment for individuals whose stories do not conform to conventional narratives. This podcast episode serves as an intimate exploration of the diverse experiences of congregants, highlighting how their unique journeys intertwine with the divine narrative. Stackhouse's emphasis on honoring these stories underscores the belief that every individual's experience is a significant part of the greater tapestry of faith.
Throughout the episode, Pastor Stackhouse invokes historical reflections, particularly focusing on Abraham Lincoln's evolving perspective on equality and justice. This historical analysis serves as a metaphor for understanding the complexities of personal growth and the often unrecognized ignorance that can cloud our perceptions. By inviting listeners to consider their own assumptions about knowledge and truth, Stackhouse challenges them to embrace the discomfort that comes with confronting their limitations. This introspective approach encourages a deeper engagement with faith and the stories of those around us, fostering a culture of empathy and understanding within the church community.
As the episode draws to a close, Pastor Stackhouse emphasizes the importance of remaining humble and eager to learn, positing that the journey of faith is an ongoing process of discovery. He calls upon the congregation to be open to the transformative power of encounters with others, suggesting that such interactions can illuminate paths toward enlightenment and renewal. This episode not only encapsulates the essence of Heaven Earth Church but also serves as a powerful reminder that the journey of faith is enriched by the stories we share and the lessons we learn along the way.
Takeaways:
- The founding pastor, Ross Stackhouse, expresses a commitment to serving those who feel marginalized by traditional church structures.
- Heaven Earth Church aims to honor individual stories, recognizing that each person's narrative reflects God's larger story.
- The podcast emphasizes the importance of humility and a willingness to learn throughout one's spiritual journey.
- Ross Stackhouse discusses the transformative journey of Abraham Lincoln, illustrating how personal encounters can lead to profound change.
- Listeners are encouraged to engage with their own ignorance and assumptions about faith and knowledge, fostering a mindset of continual growth.
- The episode highlights the necessity of being open to new experiences that may challenge preconceived notions and lead to spiritual awakening.
Links referenced in this episode:
Transcript
Welcome to Heaven Earth Church.
Speaker A:My name is Ross Stackhouse.
Speaker A:I'm the founding pastor of Heaven Earth Church.
Speaker A:From the beginning, our heart was to be a church for people who don't fit neatly into church.
Speaker A:Our heart is to meet people where they are, to learn their stories, to honor their stories.
Speaker A:Because in every human story is God's story.
Speaker A:In this podcast, you'll hear more about the people who now call Heaven Earth Church home.
Speaker A:Their stories, in many cases of misfits who are discovering or rediscovering faith.
Speaker A:If you want to know more about us, you can go to heavenorthchurch.org Otherwise, we invite you now into the story.
Speaker B:Hello, good people.
Speaker B:Brad Miller here, the producer of the Heaven Earth Church podcast.
Speaker B:One of the main benefits of being a part of the Heaven Earth Church community is our Sunday morning conversations taught by founding pastor Ross Stackhouse.
Speaker B:You can watch and participate in the Sunday morning conversation this Sunday morning, 9:30am Eastern time at YouTube.com heavenerthchurch.
Speaker B:The audio version of the Sunday morning conversation is available here on the podcast, which you can find at Apple Podcasts, Spotify and on the website, which is heavenerthchurch.org here now from the On Fire Message series is Pastor Ross Stackhouse with the message the Holy Spirit in each person.
Speaker A:God help us to hear your voice.
Speaker A:We ask that you would pierce the hardness of our hearts, but also soften our hearts because you got that way from hardship and trauma and hurt.
Speaker A:Revive us.
Speaker A:Speak to us in the name of Jesus.
Speaker A:Amen.
Speaker A:All right, listen, I'm gonna read you a quote that is offensive, and I'm not joking.
Speaker A:If so that's this.
Speaker A:It's planned.
Speaker A:I want you to guess who said this.
Speaker A:All right?
Speaker A:It wasn't.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:Anyways, I'll just keep going.
Speaker A:Now.
Speaker A:Who said this?
Speaker A:Telling you this is.
Speaker A:This is offensive.
Speaker A:There's a physical difference between the white and black races which will ever forbid the two races living together on terms of social and political equality.
Speaker A:And inasmuch as they cannot so live while they do remain together, there must be the position of superior.
Speaker A:I am, as much as any other man, in favor of having the superior position assigned to the white race.
Speaker A:Race?
Speaker A:Are you like this is whiplash, Ross?
Speaker A:You're just gonna jump in with that?
Speaker A:You've been gone for three weeks.
Speaker A:You're gonna read that?
Speaker A:Who said that?
Speaker A:That's a great guess.
Speaker A:Thomas Jefferson, but it is not correct.
Speaker A:It.
Speaker A:My brother also guessed that.
Speaker A:Katie.
Speaker A:It's not Woodrow Wilson.
Speaker A:Jefferson actually, in a way, did the opposite.
Speaker A:Outwardly, he spoke about being vehemently against slavery in his original draft of the Declaration, wanted to say something about it.
Speaker A:He was meanwhile holding on to his slaves for dear life.
Speaker A:So I'm giving you a little hint.
Speaker A:This is somebody you wouldn't expect, not Washington.
Speaker A:The great emancipator.
Speaker A:Abraham Lincoln said that.
Speaker A: ebate with Stephen Douglas in: Speaker A:And some historians have said he said this to kind of garner some favor with the constituents who wanted to make sure that he wasn't going to shake things up too much.
Speaker A:It's okay if you're anti slavery, but don't be an abolitionist.
Speaker A:It's okay if you're against slavery, but, hey, chill.
Speaker A:The reason I say that is because I am.
Speaker A:I love Abraham Lincoln.
Speaker A:I don't.
Speaker A:I think he's the greatest president of all time.
Speaker A:I don't think it's close.
Speaker A:I have no authority to say that, except it's just my opinion.
Speaker A:He is an example of sometimes we don't know what we don't know, he didn't know.
Speaker A:Like, there's a layer of when we don't know things.
Speaker A:Like, for example, I know that I don't know what the theory of relativity actually is.
Speaker A:I know that.
Speaker A:I know that I don't know that.
Speaker A:I know that I don't know how long I'm going to live on this earth.
Speaker A:But sometimes there's like a double layer.
Speaker A:And it's kind of haunting as human beings, really, that sometimes we don't know what we don't know.
Speaker A:And I think in this case, Abraham Lincoln was in that double layer.
Speaker A:He had.
Speaker A:He wasn't even.
Speaker A:He wasn't asking even questions about slavery that he would be asking three years later.
Speaker A:And sometimes it's not until we meet a person that really just maybe somebody, like we haven't met before, or we go through an experience that wakes us up to our error, our ignorance, and our evil.
Speaker A:And Abraham Lincoln met a lot of people who did that for him.
Speaker A: ho came to the White House in: Speaker A:And Douglass came with some complaints about how black soldiers were being treated, how they were being paid less than white soldiers, how they couldn't be commissioned as officers.
Speaker A:They were fighting, but they weren't getting paid equally.
Speaker A:They were willing to shed blood, but they couldn't be commissioned as officers.
Speaker A:Lincoln started to wake up, and when he first started the Civil War, he was willing to save The Union.
Speaker A:He said this, if I could save the Union and free all the slaves, I'll do it.
Speaker A:If I could save the Union and free none of the slaves, I'd do it.
Speaker A:If I could save the Union by freeing the some and leaving others, I'll do it.
Speaker A: By: Speaker A:It shows you what God can do in people, even people who are doing vile stuff.
Speaker A:He changed.
Speaker A:He changed dramatically.
Speaker A:And thank God for it, because there are a bunch of leaders before him that were kicking the can down the road all the way back to the Declaration of Independence.
Speaker A:They knew they should have done something about it, and they did.
Speaker A:What about us?
Speaker A:What about us?
Speaker A:I want to ask you a question, and I hope you'll be honest with yourself.
Speaker A:No need to be dishonest.
Speaker A:Look inside yourself.
Speaker A:Look in the mirror.
Speaker A:Do you tend to assume there's a lot you don't know yet?
Speaker A:Or if you're honest, do you tend to assume that you're kind of close to knowing much of what you need to know?
Speaker A:Be honest with yourself, which are you?
Speaker A:You tend to assume that there's a lot that you don't know.
Speaker A:Maybe even you don't know what you don't know.
Speaker A:Or actually day to day, moment to moment, do you kind of operate more with the assumption that I'm pretty close to what I need to know?
Speaker A:I'll hang up and listen.
Speaker A:Natalie.
Speaker A:I think as a general principle, I tend to say I am still relatively young.
Speaker A:There's a lot I don't know yet that I will need to know throughout my life.
Speaker A:So it's probably a little easier for me to say, I don't know what I don't know.
Speaker A:But also with certain subjects, I'm like, yeah, I know that.
Speaker A:So it kind of depends on the situation.
Speaker A:Natalie says it depends on the situation at self identifying as a young person.
Speaker A:There's a lot she says that she doesn't know and doesn't know that she doesn't know.
Speaker A:But there are some subjects where she's like, I feel pretty certain.
Speaker A:What about you?
Speaker A:Rest of you?
Speaker A:Kara, you never.
Speaker A:Kara just shared the experience of seeing a video for her company that was like a 50th anniversary video where there was an elderly gentleman who said, you're never too old to keep learning.
Speaker A:What else?
Speaker A:Crystal?
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:Turn 40.
Speaker A:The older you get, the lesser, you know.
Speaker A:I feel that way too.
Speaker A:Ralph.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:Ralph says that.
Speaker A:What did you call yourself?
Speaker A:An old Man, Ralph, he said, I still.
Speaker A:He operates by a phrase like be curious, not judgmental.
Speaker A:Lucy, okay.
Speaker A:She wants to say she's not as old.
Speaker A:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker A:Lucy just talked about the virtue of having a teachable heart.
Speaker A:Yep.
Speaker A:Charles.
Speaker A:Yeah, Charles talks.
Speaker A:Just kind of concurs with, you know, we kind of don't know.
Speaker A:We don't know until we meet somebody or go through an experience where we, we, we get, we woken up to this, what we didn't know.
Speaker A:And, and now we're like, man, I need to know more about that.
Speaker A:I want to show you.
Speaker A:I want to give you just a simple, simple thing to take with you today.
Speaker A:Especially as we think about baptisms, we have three people reaffirming their baptisms.
Speaker A:They were baptized once, but they decided.
Speaker A:At this point in my life, I really want to go all in with being born again from above.
Speaker A:And I love that imagery because what we're saying is that we're like spiritual babies.
Speaker A:We have to learn how to walk and talk.
Speaker A:And as I talked with one of my children about yesterday, we have to learn what to do with our big feelings.
Speaker A:All right.
Speaker A:Gotta learn what to do with our big feelings.
Speaker A:And if we have that mindset, especially when we get confronted with somebody like we haven't met before or an experience that is totally disorienting, if we can get through those big feelings and embrace that discipleship essential.
Speaker A:We talk about being humble, hungry and willing.
Speaker A:If we can be humble, hungry and willing, we are going to discover that Jesus is still going to do something we don't think is possible.
Speaker A:We're not even considering it.
Speaker A:I can tell you.
Speaker A:I confess that a lot of times my mindset, my assumption is that I've grown the majority of what I'm going to in my spiritual life.
Speaker A:I already had my awakening.
Speaker A:I've had a couple of them.
Speaker A:And now there's just a little Jesus just doing a little fine sandpaper on my life.
Speaker A:Whoo.
Speaker A:I keep learning that.
Speaker A:Oh, okay.
Speaker A:We're gonna still do some big demolition work here.
Speaker A:What we see in the earliest movement that something miraculous of God is afoot.
Speaker A:It still is that Jesus started and he passed on to ordinary people, some of the most unlikely people who became extraordinary spirit filled torch carriers.
Speaker A:Jesus desire is to encircle us with his light and invite us into the unknown with him.
Speaker A:I want to show you the quickest example of this in Acts of the Apostles.
Speaker A:It's the documentation of the narrative about the Jesus movement.
Speaker A:After Jesus exited stage, not left or right, kind of up, he ascended and he passed on this movement, and he said, you're going to be my witnesses, starting here in Jerusalem, then to Judea, then to Samaria, and then to the ends of the earth.
Speaker A:Well, sure enough, by chapter eight, that is happening.
Speaker A:There's a guy by the name of Philip who is doing miraculous stuff in chapter eight.
Speaker A:Suffice it to say, he is doing miraculous stuff.
Speaker A:Philip is in chapter eight.
Speaker A:But the narrative, the writer of this story is trying to tip us off to something.
Speaker A:If we were hearing it for the first time, it would be like suspense in a movie or a book.
Speaker A:Chapter eight has two, like, sandwich buns.
Speaker A:It's sandwiched in between verse 8:1 and 9:1.
Speaker A:So there's amazing God, amazing stuff going on in chapter eight.
Speaker A:But there's this snake in the grass lurking.
Speaker A:Look at this.
Speaker A:Read that first sentence before the next paragraph.
Speaker A:Go ahead.
Speaker A:The first martyr gets stoned to death.
Speaker A:And they're just listening commentary.
Speaker A:Little itty bitty commentary.
Speaker A:Saul was in full agreement.
Speaker A:This guy named Saul.
Speaker A:Who's this?
Speaker A:Saul wasn't even mentioned.
Speaker A:Really.
Speaker A:It's like, there's this guy named Saul who was happy about a dude being murdered.
Speaker A:Then chapter eight, amazing stories fill up with this Ethiopian eunuch in Samaria.
Speaker A:The enemies, the worst of the worst people, according to some of Jesus's kind, were like, they're getting this, too.
Speaker A:They're included.
Speaker A:What?
Speaker A:And then 9:1 happens.
Speaker A:Meanwhile, Saul was still spewing out murderous threats against the Lord's disciples.
Speaker A:This guy was going to the high priest, asking for letters to the synagogues in Damascus.
Speaker A:He was going about and doing raids.
Speaker A:This guy was up to this.
Speaker A:His story would be cool if we didn't know this context.
Speaker A:When we know this context, it's like, whoa.
Speaker A:During the journey, as he approached Damascus, suddenly you read the rest.
Speaker A:Suddenly, man, this Saul guy, I've told you before, he went to, like, the Columbia of the ancient near east of the time.
Speaker A:He was educated in this place called Tarsus.
Speaker A:Smart fella.
Speaker A:He was a scholar of the first five books of the Bible.
Speaker A:Probably had most of it memorized.
Speaker A:And, buddy, he was walking around making sure everybody is following every word of it.
Speaker A:He thought he was a big deal.
Speaker A:And he was going around oppressing and harassing.
Speaker A:This way he was.
Speaker A:Stephen's getting stoned to death.
Speaker A:He's like, gosh, this is great.
Speaker A:So glad that guy got stoned.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:Chapter nine.
Speaker A:He's like, who else can we murder?
Speaker A:These idiots?
Speaker A:Following the way these blasphemers.
Speaker A:And then suddenly, a light from heaven encircled him.
Speaker A:He fell to the ground.
Speaker A:In a verse, he heard a voice saying, saul, Saul.
Speaker A:Jesus doesn't do that very often.
Speaker A:Call people by their name twice like that.
Speaker A:It's like he's got to get through Saul's thick head.
Speaker A:Why are you harassing me?
Speaker A:Really quick commentary on that.
Speaker A:Jesus says in Matthew 25, when you've not done it for the least of these, you've done that to me.
Speaker A:So when Saul is harassing all these other people, Jesus says, you're doing it to me.
Speaker A:And when you're not doing something to help the vulnerable, you're doing it to me.
Speaker A:Why are you harassing me?
Speaker A:And here is what Saul did not know that he did not know because he was so fully assuming.
Speaker A:I know who God is.
Speaker A:I've got it down.
Speaker A:But he says it.
Speaker A:He indicts himself.
Speaker A:He had no idea that he didn't know who God is.
Speaker A:Go ahead, ask his question.
Speaker A:Saul asked, he didn't have any idea who the Lord is.
Speaker A:Isn't that scary?
Speaker A:We can be all in religiously religious experts.
Speaker A:We can be.
Speaker A:I just watched Star wars yesterday.
Speaker A:So a little Yoda slipped in right there.
Speaker A:But Saul was on the dark side.
Speaker A:He thought he was on the.
Speaker A:He was oppressing the rebellion, the good rebellion.
Speaker A:This Jesus fellow says, I am Jesus, whom you are harassing.
Speaker A:So here's the so what for today, because we got to get on to some baptisms.
Speaker A:At this moment, Saul has to do whatever Jesus says, right?
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:Does he listen?
Speaker A:When we have these moments where an awakening gets presented to us, Jesus doesn't work by force.
Speaker A:That's not relationship.
Speaker A:He'll show up in certain ways and invite us.
Speaker A:Then the ball is in our court.
Speaker A:Saul could have had this big old vision, disorienting moment, and then he could have adjusted right back to the denial room of change instead of going to the confusion room, which is the one that you get, you have to go through before renewal.
Speaker A:He could have been like, okay, I'm.
Speaker A:I didn't get enough sleep last night.
Speaker A:You guys need to get more sleep.
Speaker A:Had a little bit too much wine.
Speaker A:I need to.
Speaker A:What's going on?
Speaker A:Anyways, let's make our way to Damascus and get some people out of those synagogues and take them over to be stoned.
Speaker A:I don't know what happened, guys.
Speaker A:Sorry about that.
Speaker A: ew I wasn't going to make the: Speaker A:Good thing there's grace for me, too.
Speaker A:He doesn't have to do any.
Speaker A:He could resist this with all his might.
Speaker A:Jesus says, now get up and Enter the city.
Speaker A:You will be told what you must do during it.
Speaker A:Jesus always does that.
Speaker A:He doesn't give you the whole vision.
Speaker A:A hundred steps.
Speaker A:He gives you one.
Speaker A:Gives you enough vision for one step.
Speaker A:Hey, I want you to go to the city.
Speaker A:What's missing here is so that he'll do the same thing in chapter 10 with Peter and Cornelius.
Speaker A:Some of us are stuck, and we're not going because we don't have the so that.
Speaker A:And we're saying, I have to have that.
Speaker A:You must give me the so that so I can keep going.
Speaker A:Those traveling were like, what in the world just happened?
Speaker A:They picked him up, man.
Speaker A:It gets worse.
Speaker A:Saul opens his eyes and he can't see.
Speaker A:This awakening is blinding.
Speaker A:He was at the top of the heap, Saul was, for much of his life.
Speaker A:And now he is humbled to the point of not being able to see and needing to be led by hand to the place he wants to go.
Speaker A:You know what he does?
Speaker A:It.
Speaker A:Look what God can do.
Speaker A:This guy, this guy.
Speaker A:Jesus wakes up and this guy sticks with it, even though he can't see.
Speaker A:For three days, he doesn't eat or drink.
Speaker A:And then he goes, I wouldn't even remember this fellow's name if I hadn't been doing the story this week.
Speaker A:Minor character.
Speaker A:Ananias does the same thing.
Speaker A:This is what a disciple looks like.
Speaker A:The Lord spoke to him.
Speaker A:Ananias, he knows who the Lord is.
Speaker A:He's not a big, very important person.
Speaker A:And yet, weirdly, he knows who the Lord is.
Speaker A:When the Lord says this guy's name, Ananias says, yes, Lord.
Speaker A:See the difference?
Speaker A:Saul, Big important guy, super educated, lots of power.
Speaker A:Jesus says his name.
Speaker A:He goes, who are you, Lord?
Speaker A:This guy who's an unimportant person.
Speaker A:I wouldn't even remember his name.
Speaker A:Jesus says his name, and he goes, yes, Lord.
Speaker A:That we don't know.
Speaker A:What we don't know is not a problem.
Speaker A:But if we're proud, satisfied, stubborn, that's the problem.
Speaker A:The Lord instructs him, hey, I want you to go meet this fella named Saul.
Speaker A:And then Ananias goes, oh, and by the way, I want you to put hands on him and restore his sight.
Speaker A:Ananias says, excuse me, isn't this guy the villain?
Speaker A:I've heard some things about him, Lord.
Speaker A:And you know what Lord says?
Speaker A:Yep.
Speaker A:I have called him to a mission he doesn't even know about yet.
Speaker A:And guess what?
Speaker A:Ananias does it, too.
Speaker A:He shows up.
Speaker A:And then Saul goes on one missionary journey, and on the next one, he goes farther and on the next one he goes farther and then finally he ends up in Rome and loses his life.
Speaker A:We are sitting in his legacy today.
Speaker A:So I leave you with this.
Speaker A:Are you done learning yet?
Speaker A:Have you learned everything that there is to learn?
Speaker A:And if the Lord shows up to you and gives you an awakening, what will you do?
Speaker A:Will you need to sow that?
Speaker A:Or will you say, I'll get enough vision for just the next step?
Speaker A:In the last 30 days, friends, I have been back to this disorienting demolition time with Jesus that I thought I was done with.
Speaker A:I didn't realize, I didn't think that, I thought I was done with it until it happened.
Speaker A:And I was like, oh shoot.
Speaker A:I thought I was done with all that.
Speaker A:We'll do it our whole lives.
Speaker A:So let us keep being curious.
Speaker A:Let us be humble.
Speaker A:Let us hungry and willing.
Speaker A:Lord, thank you that you meet us where we are, that you're willing to encircle us in light even when we seem to be committed to the darkness.
Speaker A:I ask Lord, that when you encircle us in light in the coming days, when you encircle us in light in the coming days, help us to see it.
Speaker A:And even if we are blinded by it and we feel like we can't eat or drink, help us to keep going with you.
Speaker A:In Jesus name, Amen.
Speaker B:Thank you for participating in the conversation happening at Heaven Earth Church.
Speaker B:Your next opportunity to do so live is this Sunday morning, 9:30am Eastern Time, either at the main campus at 309 East Main in Whiteland, Indiana or online at YouTube Live.
Speaker B:That's@YouTube.com heavenerthchurch the audio podcast is always available at Apple Podcast and on so Spotify.
Speaker B:You can help others find out about the Heaven Earth Church podcast by going to Apple Podcasts and or Spotify and leaving a five star rating in your review.
Speaker B:Instructions on how to do just that and links are in the show notes.
Speaker B:You can always find out more by going to the church website heavenearthchurch.org.
Speaker A:We want to thank you for spending time with us today.
Speaker A:My name is Ross Stackhouse, the pastor to Heaven Earth Church and you may think out there that your story is over, but in fact your faith story may just be beginning.
Speaker A:If you want more information about our church or you're interested in the next step, you can go to heavenearthchurch.org otherwise we look forward to being with you next time at the Heaven Earth Church Podcast.
