Episode 18
A Conversation with Spencer Medcalf from HeavenEarth's Recovery Church
The HeavenEarth Church Podcast Exists to Amplify The Conversation Happening at HeavenEarth Church.
This conversation centers around the vision to be a church that make a lasting impact in our community by building relationships with all kinds of folks, helping people know and live like Jesus together.
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In this insightful episode of the Heaven Earth Church podcast, the discourse revolves around the church's foundational ethos of inclusivity and support for those who feel estranged from traditional religious settings. Ross Stackhouse, the founding pastor, articulates a compelling vision of a community that prioritizes the needs and stories of its members, emphasizing the church's role as a haven for individuals seeking connection and understanding. The conversation invites listeners to ponder the significance of personal narratives within the context of faith, highlighting the belief that every individual's story contains elements of the divine.
As the dialogue progresses, Brad Miller introduces Spencer Medcalf, who provides a candid account of his journey through addiction and recovery. Spencer's experiences at Spark Recovery illuminate the challenges faced by individuals dealing with substance use disorders, as well as the critical importance of community support in facilitating recovery. The discussion encourages listeners to confront societal stigmas associated with addiction, portraying recovery as a multifaceted process that requires empathy and understanding from both individuals and the community at large.
The episode culminates in a profound examination of the relationship between spirituality and recovery. Spencer articulates the necessity for individuals to engage with their spirituality in a manner that resonates with their personal journeys. The Recovery Church is presented as a vital resource that fosters a safe and non-judgmental environment, allowing individuals to explore their faith alongside their recovery. Through this framework, the podcast underscores the church's commitment to community engagement, inviting listeners to recognize the power of collective support in the healing process, and reinforcing the message that recovery is a journey best undertaken within a caring and compassionate community.
Takeaways:
- The inception of Heaven Earth Church was rooted in the philosophy of inclusivity for those who traditionally feel excluded from conventional church settings.
- Spencer Medcalf's personal journey highlights the profound impact of community support on the recovery process from substance addiction.
- A significant aspect of the church's mission involves integrating spirituality within recovery, facilitating a holistic approach to healing.
- The Recovery Church initiative emphasizes a safe and non-judgmental environment, fostering open dialogue and truth-telling among its members.
- The church offers multiple weekly gatherings, including a special emphasis on recovery support, which is vital for community engagement and healing.
- Leadership development within the Recovery Church empowers individuals in recovery, transforming them from service recipients to active contributors in the community.
Links referenced in this episode:
Transcript
What would it look like to start a community that was really it's for the people like Jesus would be for?
Speaker A:Welcome to Heaven Earth Church.
Speaker A:I'm Ross Stackhouse, the founding pastor of Heaven Earth Church.
Speaker A:From the start, our heart has been to be a church for people who don't fit neatly into church.
Speaker A:We want to meet people where they are and know their stories.
Speaker A:Because in every story there is God story.
Speaker A:And this podcast is just about that.
Speaker A:It's about inviting you to the stories of the people of Heaven Earth Church.
Speaker A:So let's turn to the story.
Speaker B:Hello good people.
Speaker B:Brad Miller here, the producer and the co host of the Heaven Earth Church podcast.
Speaker B:All about a church that's dedicated to making a lasting impact in our community.
Speaker B:This podcast is all about meeting the people connected to the church and learning more about them.
Speaker B:We have a fascinating interview here today with Spencer Metcalfe.
Speaker B:Before we get into that, into that interview, we did want you to know you can always connect up with Heaven Earth Church at one of three gatherings that take place every week.
Speaker B:One is the Sunday morning conversation which takes place live and in person at the main campus at the 309 E.
Speaker B:Main St.
Speaker B:In Whiteland, Indiana.
Speaker B:And simultaneously to the in person worship experience is the online experience which you can access@YouTube.com heavenerthchurch we also make reference in this episode to the Wednesday night gathering called Recovery Church, which has a special emphasis on people facing recovery issues.
Speaker B:That's at 6:30pm every Wednesday night and always includes a meal.
Speaker B:You can find out everything you want to know about Heaven earth church@heavenearthchurch.org.
Speaker C:A pleasure to have with us here on the podcast today Spencer Metcalfe, who's going to be sharing with us a little bit of some of what things he's experienced and the organization that he works for and then his relationship with the church.
Speaker C:But Spencer, welcome to our conversation here today.
Speaker D:Yes, well, thank you so much for having me.
Speaker D:Excited to be here.
Speaker C:Awesome.
Speaker C:Awesome.
Speaker C:Well, Spencer, tell us a little bit you let's kind of talk with for a second about who you work for and with and then we're going to talk about how you got there and how the a little bit of the church journey was a part of that process too.
Speaker C:Tell me a little bit about the organization that you work for and what you do there.
Speaker D:Yeah, absolutely.
Speaker D:So I currently work for an organization called Spark Recovery.
Speaker D:We are an outpatient recovery center on the north side of Indianapolis.
Speaker D:So we're actually just right off of 96 in Meridian and we're providing outpatient therapy and services to clients with substance use disorder, often in early recovery.
Speaker D:And then we also have another company called Reverie Sober Living.
Speaker D:So we recently just opened that.
Speaker D:And so we're providing the housing and the clinical treatment.
Speaker D:And so I've been out there for a little over a year and started out really in the community side of things, doing business development, fostering and strengthening community partnerships and things like that.
Speaker D:Um, and then with the recent expansion, I've shifted to more of an internal operations role within Spark and Reverie, so.
Speaker C:Okay, well, then tell us a little bit.
Speaker C:That's what you do.
Speaker C:And it's obviously an organization that really works intensely with.
Speaker C:With people recovering from various addictions.
Speaker C:Tell us a little bit about the process, kind of the journey that led you eventually to end up with that job.
Speaker C:And we're talking about in the process, how that relates to the mission and ministry of Heaven and Earth.
Speaker C:Church in a minute.
Speaker D:Yeah, absolutely.
Speaker D:Well, it.
Speaker D:It's a.
Speaker D:It's a bit of a journey, if you will.
Speaker D: got out of DOC back in, gosh,: Speaker D:I knew I wanted to work in the Behavioral Health.
Speaker C:Just declared the doc.
Speaker C:Department of Corrections, correct?
Speaker D:Yes.
Speaker D:Yeah.
Speaker D:Department of Corrections or prison.
Speaker D:I knew I wanted to work with people, but didn't know what that looked like.
Speaker D:Didn't know, you know, what my future held.
Speaker D:But I did take a class to become certified recovery coach while I was in the Department of Corrections.
Speaker D:And so when I got out, I followed up to.
Speaker D:To get certified.
Speaker D:And so I would say about a year or so post release, I got certified as a recovery coach and have been working within the Behavioral Health substance use space ever since.
Speaker D:My first, you know, starting point with that specific job was I worked in a small outpatient clinic in downtown Indianapolis.
Speaker D:I did that for about six months, and my real takeoff or launch off point was my job at IU Health.
Speaker D:So after about six months at the small outpatient clinic, I got a job at IU Health.
Speaker D:They got a lot of grant money, both state and federal, to essentially put recovery coaches in all 15 of their emergency departments across the state.
Speaker D:So I helped oversee that team and supervise it to be able to provide essentially crisis use assessments and all of those various emergency departments, and then my team within, help those folks that were struggling get into treatment or recovery resources or access to other community care needs.
Speaker C:And you became a part of this, at least in part, because you were served by similar services, is that right?
Speaker D:Yes, absolutely.
Speaker C:Because you.
Speaker C:We can Go as deep in this as you want to or feel comfortable doing.
Speaker C:But you needed those services because you had your own addiction issues.
Speaker C:Do you want to say anything about that in terms of how that kind of led you to where that's a part of the story?
Speaker D:Is what I.
Speaker D:Oh, absolutely, yes.
Speaker D:Yeah.
Speaker D:I mean, yeah, my, you know, addiction started at the age of 16.
Speaker D:You know, I tell people I am the golden child of the opioid epidemic.
Speaker D:If you think of things like, you know, the OxyContin crisis and over prescribing of Vicodin, that is my generation.
Speaker D:That is, you know, a lot of my youth story.
Speaker D:So, of course, started with things, quote unquote, as benign as, you know, alcohol or marijuana.
Speaker D:But the thing that really stuck with me or that I really, you know, latched on to was the opioids.
Speaker D:I remember the first time I took an opioid.
Speaker D:I wasn't familiar with, like, the names or anything, but I remember.
Speaker D:I remember taking it in about 10, 15 minutes after taking it.
Speaker D:I remember the feeling it gave me, and I remember never not wanting to feel like that again.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker D:And I asked my friend, I said, what is this called?
Speaker D:And how do we get more.
Speaker D:Right.
Speaker D:I mean, there's a very clear moment in my life at that moment where I chased it for 10 years.
Speaker C:So the actual aspect of addiction, physical otherwise, was a pretty, you know, pretty early on yesterday.
Speaker C:It wasn't like a gradual leading up.
Speaker C:You could have dived yet.
Speaker C:Is that right?
Speaker D:Correct.
Speaker D:Yeah, absolutely.
Speaker C:And so that led you to.
Speaker C:In a pathway that fit you, led you, land you in the Department of Corrections and kind of goes back to the journey we mentioned there.
Speaker D:Yes.
Speaker C:As well.
Speaker C:Let's talk for a minute, Spencer, then, about how the recovery process.
Speaker C:I believe, as I've experienced with people in my life and people I've known in my ministry, I'm retired pastor who've gone through it.
Speaker C:Each time anybody recovers and gets on the journey of recovery, it is a miraculous situation because so many people do get, you know, kind of go down to a vortex of that leads to demise.
Speaker C:That's pretty bad.
Speaker C:Absolutely.
Speaker C:Am I.
Speaker C:Am I accurate now?
Speaker C:I'm.
Speaker C:That I'm speaking, not trying to speak for you, but is that an accurate representation of your experience as well?
Speaker D:Oh, yeah, I know I would absolutely agree with you that, you know, there's only a few ways that, you know, addiction really ends.
Speaker D:Right.
Speaker D:And most of them aren't pretty.
Speaker D:Um, you know, I.
Speaker D:Unfortunately, I think that folks achieving recovery, even if temporary, still seems to be like the, the smaller percentage.
Speaker D:A lot of folks like you, to your point, get sucked up in that vortex of further illness or death or, or insane asylums or what have you.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker C:And people around them get sucked into that, too.
Speaker C:Family, friends, other societal entities, they all get impacted by that, right?
Speaker D:Yes.
Speaker D:Oh, absolutely.
Speaker C:Let's talk for a second then about how your, you made us somehow made a connection with the mission and ministry of Heaven Earth Church, and particularly with the, with the Recovery church that is a part of the life here at Heaven have church.
Speaker C:How did that happen?
Speaker C:How did you get connected or even your, you know, paths crossed with the folks here?
Speaker D:Well, you know, it's interesting.
Speaker D:It's because of my job at IU Health that I even got connected with Ross.
Speaker D:So as I shared, you know, I worked out at IU Health for a number of years, and one of the project managers that was helping to oversee the administration of one of the grants that we were awarded was from the Shelbyville area, and she knew that I lived on the south side.
Speaker D:And she said, hey, I have this guy I went to high school with, and I think he's starting a church, like in your town or in your county, and he wants to do something with recovery.
Speaker D:And so I'm going to send you the link to the church website and would love for you to maybe check it out.
Speaker D:I thought, okay, well, why not?
Speaker D:Any resource is a good resource, right?
Speaker D:And so I remember going to Heaven Earth's, I believe it was just like the website and signing up for the mailing list and, you know, kind of poking around on there.
Speaker D:I think at that time the website was pretty bare bones.
Speaker D:You know, this is, it was before COVID so, gosh, over five years ago at that point.
Speaker D:And so I said, I remember signing up for the mailing list, but then, I mean, it probably wasn't 30 minutes or an hour after I signed up for the mailing list, I got another email from the pastor, this Ross Stackhouse guy, saying, hey, I see you signed up for our email list.
Speaker D:I'd love to, you know, meet with you and learn how you heard about us and just get a better understanding of what you're doing.
Speaker D:And, and so I thought, what, what's going on here with this guy?
Speaker D:You know, it just caught me off guard.
Speaker D:But I, I, I remember emailing Ross back and thinking, okay, I'll meet with you.
Speaker D:You know, at that point in my life, I tell folks I had experienced a lot of church trauma because of my addiction, and I'm an openly gay man, and I Think we all know how that goes to typically in churches, right?
Speaker D:And so I had sworn off church for a really long time, and at that moment, I wasn't.
Speaker D:I would say I was probably a little angry at church, but I just wasn't at a place where I really wanted to entertain that.
Speaker D:But I thought, this is for work.
Speaker D:I want to at least see what this guy has to say.
Speaker D:So I met Ross several weeks later at a cafe in downtown Franklin.
Speaker D:And I remember telling my mom, like, I'm going to meet this pastor from a church.
Speaker D:He wants to do something with recovery.
Speaker D:Everyone thought I was crazy because they knew kind of my stance at that moment, you know, And I remember some.
Speaker C:People in your circle, family knew you had some, you know, unh.
Speaker C:Un.
Speaker C:Not good church experiences.
Speaker D:Absolutely.
Speaker D:Yeah.
Speaker D:And so I, you know, met with Ross, and I remember very early off in the conversation just thinking, this guy is genuine.
Speaker D:You know, you could sense and feel that, the genuine nature.
Speaker D:And we had a great conversation.
Speaker D:I think we talked for well over an hour.
Speaker D:And at the end of it, he said, you know, we're starting this church.
Speaker D:We didn't even have this location yet.
Speaker D:They were just meeting weekly at his house.
Speaker D:And he's like, but I'd love to have you out there and, you know, talk about what it looked like to get, you know, recovery church or incorporate recovery into our church.
Speaker D:And so I toyed with it for a while, but, I mean, one thing led to another, and all of a sudden, I'm going to Ross house once a week, meeting with a small group of people.
Speaker D:And then right before COVID you know, there was a.
Speaker D:Another kind of smaller group of us in recovery that would meet with Ross to talk about what does recovery church look like?
Speaker D:How do we incorporate the other tenets of recovery programs and recovery principles into our own recovery church program to support folks, you know, kind of the intersection of faith and recovery.
Speaker C:So did you resonate with that, or did you kind of go, this is kind of contrived or just didn't quite get it.
Speaker C:Tell me how you kind of reacted kind of viscerally when you're talking about this whole recovery church thing.
Speaker D:Yeah, well, you know, I feel like there are some great programs out there that.
Speaker D:That have kind of like, that concept of recovery church.
Speaker D:And what really attracted me to, you know, kind of Ross's vision and what we're doing out here was that it wasn't so much this, you have to believe our way or the highway type thing, like, this is the way it is.
Speaker D:It's A come in where you're at and we'll walk on this journey with you.
Speaker D:And I really appreciated that because what I found in my own recovery journey and being in and around recovery for a while is at a different level or playing field.
Speaker D:Right.
Speaker D:When it comes to their own religious or spiritual journey.
Speaker D:And so I think being able to offer a space that's safe and allowing folks to ask the difficult questions and kind of wrestle and struggle with that both alone, but together is a very special place.
Speaker D:And so I like that is something that Ross wanted to do and that we wanted to be able to offer here at Heaven Earth.
Speaker C:True.
Speaker C:So at that time and then in your journey saying, having said you'd had some unhappy experiences there, what would do.
Speaker C:What did you see spirituality's role to play in recovery?
Speaker C:What I mean to say by that is there are some people who really, you know, that's a part of, you know, it's a piece of AA's 12 step programs and so on.
Speaker C:And.
Speaker C:But I know people have different levels of, of understanding though.
Speaker C:Importance of that.
Speaker C:Was your kind of view of the role of spirituality in recovery overall and maybe with your particular situation?
Speaker D:Yeah, I mean, I think from my own personal perspective, I think spirituality plays a very big piece in a person's journey of recovery.
Speaker D:Looking back, there's lots of moments where maybe I wasn't in tune spiritually, but looking back, there's certainly moments where it's like there was something greater than myself at play there.
Speaker D:Right.
Speaker D:Or involved in those situations.
Speaker D:And so I think when folks get into recovery and begin that journey, whether they want to acknowledge it or not, that's okay.
Speaker D:But I think there is.
Speaker D:We need to allow that space for folks to be able to wrestle with that and kind of come to terms with what is their level of comfortability with allowing spirituality to be in their lives, if that makes sense.
Speaker C:Well, I think it does.
Speaker C:And I want to go with this a little bit deeper on that because, you know, there are secular treatment centers.
Speaker C:You know, you work at one of those.
Speaker C:Yes, basically.
Speaker C:And then there are, you know, very much heavily faith based treatment alternatives that some churches have and some entities have.
Speaker C:They're really on that.
Speaker C:What recovery churches says here in their documentation about what we do here at Heavenly Church is that basically it says spiritual foundations are a part of recovery, but spirituality is a supplement to treatment in meetings.
Speaker C:So from your perspective, as someone who's gone through it, now works in a secular treatment facility and has had connections with this particular church and the recovery church.
Speaker C:What do you See, how's that working?
Speaker C:And what are some of the benefits that people have when they have some sort of a.
Speaker C:I don't know, kind of a recipe or a mix of those things that comes into play?
Speaker C:Is there a.
Speaker C:A way that can be beneficial to people where they can experience all of pieces of all that?
Speaker D:Yeah, no, absolutely.
Speaker D:I do think when folks strengthen that spiritual component and incorporate it into their lives and into their recovery journey, it just creates for a richer recovery journey.
Speaker D:You know, one thing that I have found that's been at least true for myself and a lot of others that I've, you know, encountered in this life is that those that are more spiritually in tune or plugged in seem to have more of a solid foundation in their recovery.
Speaker D:Not that they're, like, immune or not prone to life and relapse and things like that, but it's like they have a little bit more fortitude to withstand those storms and those bad moments because they have that spiritual component.
Speaker D:Where I found also, you know, there's also seems to be a greater sense of gratitude and a deeper meaning for them as it relates to that, where folks maybe that are beginning their spiritual journey or, you know, just not quite there yet, for a variety of reasons, they.
Speaker D:They maybe struggle a little bit more.
Speaker D:And that's certainly true for everyone.
Speaker D:But, you know, looking back at, again, my own journey and.
Speaker D:And the folks I work with, both personally and professionally, that seems to be somewhat of a consistent theme.
Speaker C:Yeah, well, that's.
Speaker C:That's good to hear.
Speaker C:And I think what I'm understanding the recovery church here to do here at Heaven or church is to really.
Speaker C:To be.
Speaker C:Work in partnership, not at odds with these goals, you know, to help people get healthy, clean, get sober, whatever terminology you want to use, but help them to be.
Speaker C:Get back integrated into society, not only for themselves, but for the good of, you know, their family and friends and their livelihood and contributions to society.
Speaker C:And so that has to do with kind of the community aspect.
Speaker C:I want to talk to you about for a minute, because I know that what I'm understanding from our conversation, from your work that you do and from the work that Heaven Earth Church does through the.
Speaker C:Through recovery Church is that community integration, community support is really, really vital.
Speaker C:Tell me how you have seen the integration of community, both kind of interpersonally, but also in the kind of the physical community, you know, you know, and the entities, the law enforcement and social services and everything else out there.
Speaker C:Tell me a little bit about that, about how important it is for kind of this Partnership, this integration of community support to be part of what you do professionally and what we do here at the church.
Speaker D:Yeah, I mean, I, I think as it relates to, you know, that community involvement and integration, it's so vital because, you know, when a person is suffering from not just substance use disorder, but a lot of chronic diseases, they're not often suffering al.
Speaker D:And what I mean by that is they're often putting strain or using resources within the community, you know, or that the community is supporting.
Speaker D:And so I think in supporting someone in the recovery journey or the recovery side of things, having that community support is so vital because it allows for those that are maybe new to recovery church, are new to the recovery journey, that that community aspect is so important.
Speaker D:Right.
Speaker D:And I think that's what's the biggest thing, if nothing else, is that these individuals see how important community and that community support is for them.
Speaker D:But then also once they get to that place where they're able to give back, I think that's also huge because I know, at least for me personally, I put a huge strain on community resources.
Speaker D:EMS runs, 911, being incarcerated, just list a few.
Speaker D:And so to be able to do community service projects or be the, be a reliable person for a local officer to call and say, hey, I just went on a run and you know, I just talked to Johnny Smith and he needs treatment.
Speaker D:Can you help?
Speaker D:But being that person to be able to help facilitate that is huge.
Speaker D:You know, I mean that, that's almost priceless of being able to give back.
Speaker C:So that's kind of the difference between basically, you know, terminology may not be the best, but being a drain on society and then being an asset.
Speaker D:Correct?
Speaker D:Yeah.
Speaker C:And that's an important aspect, I believe.
Speaker C:And, and I believe that's kind of the part, the value of partnerships that heaven or church has has a part to play in that.
Speaker C:And this church is built on, you know, several pillars of understanding, doctrinal statements of some sort or another.
Speaker C:But a couple of them have to do with being a safe, non, non judgmental space.
Speaker C:And churches are sometimes not known as that.
Speaker C:Sometimes they are known as a not safe judgmental space.
Speaker C:But I'm going to ask you, you've mentioned about your connection with the pastor, Ross Stackhouse, but you've also had interactions with other people in the congregation, not only with recovery church, but with the worshiping body and other folks connected to the church.
Speaker C:What's your experience about heaven or a church in terms of that pillar?
Speaker C:Are they living up to that pillar of being a safe, non Judge non judgmental space.
Speaker C:Are they living up to it?
Speaker C:And if so, how have you experienced that?
Speaker D:Yeah, I mean, I could be biased, but I think that, you know, the, the overall congregational body of Heaven Earth Church does a great job of living up to that.
Speaker D:I lovingly and I've heard, I think other people talk about it.
Speaker D:You know, we're kind of like a bunch of misfits brought together.
Speaker D:And so I think because of that component, we are all very warm and welcoming and accepting of each other and each other's journeys.
Speaker D:And just however you come through that door is who you are.
Speaker D:And we're just happy to see you here and be together and be able to worship and praise for an hour, whatever it is.
Speaker D:So, you know, everyone that I've come across with my years throughout Heaven Earth Church, I have not felt, you know, this sense of judgment or, you know, being misunderstood or anything like that.
Speaker D:I've often always felt like folks are warm and welcoming and excited to see me, but also that it's genuine.
Speaker D:Right.
Speaker D:Because I think we've all been in places where, you know, they can roll out the red carpet and maybe present that they're excited, but then when they turn their backs and they're whispering at their friends, what are they really saying?
Speaker D:And I don't get the sense that that's happening here.
Speaker D:I get the sense that folks actually do care, they do want you here, which has been all the difference compared to other churches, you know, that I've been through throughout my life.
Speaker C:So as a pastor, we sometimes call those the parking lot conversations.
Speaker D:Exactly.
Speaker C:But after what goes up front.
Speaker C:But another what you're touching on here, something else.
Speaker C:I want to go with you here in a minute.
Speaker C:Or is the value the church has of being a, a place for truth, for truth telling can take place?
Speaker C:And I know that recently you were been able to speak at one of the Recovery Church events that have to do with basically truth telling.
Speaker D:Yeah.
Speaker C:So tell me how that value is lived out and do you feel like you've been able to tell your truth personally?
Speaker C:And do you think it's a safe place for other people that you may have some understanding of addiction, community or whatever that could be a place to.
Speaker C:To tell the truth and be.
Speaker C:Be heard as well?
Speaker D:Yeah, no, absolutely.
Speaker D:So, yeah, the event that you're talking about, the, the Recovery Church speaker series that they recently started, you know, really, for those that might be familiar with it, it's very similar to like the traditional AA giving a lead, as they call it, you know, where you get up and you share your story.
Speaker D:Essentially it boils down to what was it like, what happened and what is it like now.
Speaker D:And so I feel like I, I, I often tell people as a person, be careful what you ask because you'll probably get an honest answer.
Speaker D:So don't, you know, don't ask if you don't want an honest answer.
Speaker D:So some of that could just be a me thing.
Speaker D:But I feel like I, I can always be transparent or very upfront and you know, like that event, you know, I shared some, some pretty serious things, both positive and negative.
Speaker D:You know, I shared some traumas that happened and some, some really great positive things in, in front of a group full of people in a church that, you know, most people may not have felt comfortable sharing, but I felt like I was in my safe space, you know.
Speaker D:And there have been many times in the little circle around recovery church, you know, we kind of get together in that cliche circle right as we're talking or we used to, where there have been a lot of heavy things, truths told and shared by myself and by other participants in the circle that folks think may typically, you know, may wouldn't have been shared in a church.
Speaker D:But because it is a safe space and we've created that kind of environment, folks feel comfortable sharing that.
Speaker D:So I think to, you know, kind of your, your point of like that truth telling pillar, it very much so rings true for, you know, at least the interactions I've had and the experiences I've had here.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker C:Because I think it goes to this set, I'm going to use a word here that is used, it's kind of a heavy word, but I think it applies addictions.
Speaker C:People dealing with addiction often bring with it a stigma, you know, of.
Speaker C:Well, these people cannot be relied upon or this is somebody who's just going to be, you know, just such a mess that we can't, you know, be really in communication with that.
Speaker C:And so part of what heaven or church I believe is about is about a faith community that can help to reframe that stigma that comes with that.
Speaker C:So what do you think is the role here?
Speaker C:How can a church like Heaven Earth continue to work towards, you know, kind of going against this stigma of people who deal with it.
Speaker C:We deal with addictions who have everything else going in their life too, whatever their other things in their life as well.
Speaker C:But how can a faith community be helpful?
Speaker D:Yeah, well, you know, I think so far so good.
Speaker D:Right.
Speaker D:You know, we've created kind of this groundwork in this support structure of Recovery Church and allowing folks to come in as they are, you know, to get that support.
Speaker D:But the one thing that I found really beautiful that I've seen in the last several years is beginning is where, you know, the church is beginning to develop some of these longer standing members in recovery into leaders.
Speaker D:Because I think that's kind of like the next level, if you will.
Speaker D:Right.
Speaker D:Is kind of not only giving them the, the opportunity to recover, but to like excel and propel their lives forward.
Speaker D:Right.
Speaker D:Because that's how, you know, how my success, you know, really took off professionally.
Speaker D:Someone rolled the dice on me, you know, is what I tell folks is.
Speaker D:And so.
Speaker D:And I think being able to do that as a church and giving them these leadership opportunities and allowing folks to grow will just further strengthen that and support folks in recovery.
Speaker D:And then it just creates, it creates this environment of where people want to do it, I think, you know, or they see what we have going on and it becomes this positive of not only are they supporting them, but they're like giving them all the tools and all the things necessary, right.
Speaker D:To, to really grow and excel beyond just attending a meeting weekly.
Speaker D:And so I think it's things like.
Speaker C:That, that part, the, the leadership development piece, I think is so huge because that means, in my mind at least, it means that, you know, kind of the buy in and the ownership comes from within, not just kind of a, an imposed program by the church, which may be perceived that way or maybe, maybe that way.
Speaker C:In some cases it is.
Speaker C:But I, I like to think about how this sense of leadership now can maybe lead opportunities for new pathways to continue to serve the community, you know, new entry points, if you will.
Speaker C:So how do you think that might work out?
Speaker C:What kind of, what's next for you and for Recovery Church and how it role plays in secular organizations like the one you work for, Sparker Recovery.
Speaker C:What's next?
Speaker C:Or what are some pathways that can open.
Speaker C:Open up here for?
Speaker C:Because we know that the addiction problem remains, right?
Speaker D:Absolutely.
Speaker D:Yeah, absolutely.
Speaker C:So we know that remains.
Speaker D:Yes.
Speaker C:And some people are in denial about it, but it remains.
Speaker C:So what are some ways that this, this partnership, this, this thing we're describing here can open up pathways for more and more people to be served and get, get healthier and therefore serve the greater good?
Speaker D:Yeah, well, you know, I, again, I think we've established that structure, right, of, of the weekly meetings and different things like that.
Speaker D:So that is there.
Speaker D:So then, you know, one of the things I've looked at is, okay, what does like those external relationships look like.
Speaker D:Right.
Speaker D:Or like those, like, marketing opportunities.
Speaker D:What.
Speaker D:What are some other ways, either conventional or unconventional, that we can engage community members, community partners, to a.
Speaker D:Get the word out about our programming.
Speaker D:But then also, like, is there.
Speaker D:Are there partners that need assistance?
Speaker D:Right.
Speaker D:And does Recovery Church become a, like an extension of.
Speaker D:Of the church, like this Helping Hand or arm.
Speaker D:Right.
Speaker D:Heaven Earth that goes out and helps folks and things like that, which I know the church does a lot of, you know, outside, you know, community work and partnerships, but I think to be able to have like, that specific extension from Recovery Church and know, like, these are the folks that are, you know, that have been through addiction or in recovery and now they're here helping to shovel snow or rebuild after the tornadoes or whatever.
Speaker D:It is some practical thing.
Speaker D:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker C:And, you know, that may even go to such as, you know, work.
Speaker C:You talk about, you know, kind of marketing, get the positive word out and more, but may like working with employers.
Speaker C:I know around here we got these huge, massive distribution facilities and what have you.
Speaker C:And yes, I at least know at least one or two situations where employers have had issues with employees.
Speaker D:Yes.
Speaker C:You know, who had addiction issues and.
Speaker C:And, you know, in order for productivity to happen, they would like to deal with that.
Speaker D:Absolutely.
Speaker C:Just one example of how this might expand into whole different realms here.
Speaker C:And I think that's really a cool thing.
Speaker C:Well, let me bring it around to this, Spencer, and kind of bring it around to, you know, this is the Heaven Earth Church podcast and part of the mission and ministry of the church history with partnerships and including these pillars about being a safe place and so on that we've already talked about.
Speaker C:I want to make it kind of personal with you just for a second in the sense of.
Speaker C:And I like to ask most people this.
Speaker C:What is this the type of place that you would feel comfortable if there's somebody in your life, in your circle of friends or people that you associate with that is some issue.
Speaker C:It didn't even have to be addiction.
Speaker C:It could be something else.
Speaker C:You know, losing your job or going through a divorce or death in the family, any, you know, any number of things that happen to people.
Speaker C:Is this the type of place that you'd feel comfortable inviting them to say, this is a place that you might want to check out?
Speaker D:Oh, absolutely.
Speaker D:Yeah.
Speaker D:You know, I.
Speaker D:I started coming by myself in the beginning, you know, but I eventually brought my mother and my brother.
Speaker D:You know, I've invited several different friends.
Speaker D:You know, maybe most of those haven't had, like, some specific issues or life struggles or Things that you've highlighted, but certainly had that interest in seeking or finding kind of a new church home.
Speaker D:Right.
Speaker D:You know, something that wasn't such like a.
Speaker D:What I call, like, the big box church.
Speaker D:Right.
Speaker D:You know, and so I think this offers Heaven and earth offers a very much a unique experience that a lot of us, I think, especially the millennial age, where, you know, we're kind of products of that big box church, you know, wants to be a little bit smaller and intimate and, you know, things like that.
Speaker D:So I am always trying to let folks know, you know, I.
Speaker D:I don't want to become what I say, the crazy lunatic, like, come to my church.
Speaker D:I'll save you.
Speaker D:You know, the person that I may have, you know, looked down upon a few years ago.
Speaker D:But I do want people to know that they are welcome.
Speaker D:And I'm always happy to join folks and sit next to with them in a pew if they don't want to sit alone or if they want to ride.
Speaker D:Always happy to do that because it can be scary, you know, even if you, you know, it was scary for me to show up at Ross's house, I think I would have been less scared to show up to a more traditional church.
Speaker D:But it's like when you're going to someone's house and meeting in their living room.
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker D:You're gonna have to talk to people.
Speaker D:Right.
Speaker D:There's no, like, hiding behind the pew or anything like that.
Speaker D:So, yes, all of that to say I.
Speaker D:I do feel like this place is special and safe and can really offer, you know, some unique experiences, but ultimately some spiritual healing and growth for anyone that's seeking it, regardless of what their circumstances are.
Speaker C:Well, having.
Speaker C:And just to take that.
Speaker C:That's sort of your experience now.
Speaker C:Now I kind of want you to put yourself in that role of.
Speaker C:Let's just say that there's a person who's watching our conversation here today, and.
Speaker C:And they say, okay, that sounds good, man, and I resonate with your story, but, you know, I'm really a mess, you know, with addiction or other things like this.
Speaker C:So what would be your kind of a personal invitation you might have, if you were sharing with that person here that how you personally might be involved or others here might be involved in order to be helpful to them.
Speaker C:That person.
Speaker D:Yeah.
Speaker D:I mean, so you're talking about, like, you know, they're really struggling with their substance use, and maybe that needs to be addressed.
Speaker C:Let's just go there because that's your experience.
Speaker D:Yeah, I mean, you know, I.
Speaker D:I have certainly been There where I have too been a.
Speaker D:And some days still aren't the greatest.
Speaker D:Right.
Speaker D:We're all human.
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker D:And so I often tell folks that, you know, if, if that's where they're at and they're interested in even just investigating what options are out there.
Speaker D:TreatmentAtlas.org is a state ran, you know, website where you can put in what substances you're struggling with, your zip code.
Speaker D:It has a self kind of as a self guided questionnaire that helps kind of lead folks to the appropriate avenue.
Speaker D:And it's all of course anonymous.
Speaker D:You can do it on your phone or online.
Speaker D:But this kind of allows folks to engage in treatment without having to maybe talk to another human because that can be really scary in that moment.
Speaker D:Right.
Speaker D:But if you do want help and you do want guidance, you can always reach out to myself.
Speaker D:Indiana 211, you know, staff's recovery coaches.
Speaker D:So that often allows for folks to be able to talk to a human, someone in recovery and allows them to, you know, walk with them even if it's telephonically through this journey and gets plugged in.
Speaker C:And then there's also professional organizations like your organization you work for and once you share share with our, with our folks that the website or how people can get a hold of that if they want to go that route.
Speaker D:Yeah, no, absolutely.
Speaker D:So sparkrecovery.com is the best way to engage with Spark Recovery.
Speaker D:And so we are again providing outpatient therapy and treatment for folks but more specific to Johnson County.
Speaker D:I am also the board president for a recovery coalition.
Speaker D:So if you go to upstreamprevention.org Rise R I S E you can go there to see our list of activities and events and get plugged into other more local like Johnson county specific resources.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker C:Then if people want to somehow get connected with Recovery Church, just kind of tell folks how that actually works, what time it is, what would someone experience if they're going to come to want to find out more about Recovery church here at Governor Church.
Speaker D:So as of right now it's every Wednesday 6:30 to 8.
Speaker D:So it's here at Heaven Earth Church.
Speaker D:I do not know the address but I'm sure we'll have that posted in the link here for Heaven Earth Church just across the street from Whiteland High School.
Speaker D:But like I said, every Wednesday just you walk in through the main, you know, kind of doors.
Speaker D:Typically we're meeting in the sanctuary and each week the format somewhat changes.
Speaker D:Sometimes there might be a speaker, there might be more of a discussion or you know, that Somewhat varies, but overall the format typically is kind of a welcome period with a meal.
Speaker D:They do provide a meal each week, which is nice.
Speaker D:And then they roll into whether it's again the speaker or what have you.
Speaker D:And there's always, you know, Ross or the other Recovery Church leaders here.
Speaker D:So always looking for like those new faces or unfamiliar face so where we can make folks feel comfortable and engaged and welcome.
Speaker C:So that's a very important thing to help people who are to feel welcome.
Speaker D:Absolutely.
Speaker C:And not, you know, so much can be so intimidating and that this type of thing.
Speaker C:So that's.
Speaker C:Well, that's wonderful.
Speaker C:I just leave it with this.
Speaker C:Anything else that you just want to share here, Spencer?
Speaker D:That I want to share.
Speaker D:You know, I typically like to end these things off with that recovery is possible and I am not special.
Speaker D:You know, just reach out and do the work.
Speaker D:Trust God and clean house, as they say.
Speaker C:Trust God and clean.
Speaker D:Yes.
Speaker C:I love that.
Speaker C:Well, we certainly thank you for being with us here today.
Speaker C:Our guest here today on the Heaven and Earth Church podcast, Spencer Metcalf.
Speaker C:He's really involved with the Wednesday night Recovery Church and is on the staff@sparkrecovery.com and we'll put all the connections to that and our show notes at Heaven.
Speaker C:Spencer, thanks for being our guest today.
Speaker D:Thank you so much.
Speaker B:Brad Miller, back with you to wrap up this podcast episode with Spencer Metcalf.
Speaker B:I found it fascinating.
Speaker B:I hope that you did too.
Speaker B:Then once you know, you'll find all the links to everything that Spencer was talking about in our show notes.
Speaker B:But you can always find at our website, heavenearthchurch.org all the podcast directories.
Speaker B:You can also find this at YouTube HeavenEarth Church.
Speaker B:And a reminder, your next opportunity to worship at Heaven Earth Church is this Sunday morning at 9:30am at the main campus at 309 E.
Speaker B:Main St.
Speaker B:In Whiteland and Recovery Church, 6:30pm every Wednesday night at the campus.
Speaker B:You can always find us at our website, heavenearthchurch.
Speaker A:We want to thank you for spending time with us today.
Speaker A:My name is Ross Stackhouse, the pastor to Heaven Earth Church.
Speaker A:And you may think out there that your story is over, but in fact, your faith story may just be beginning.
Speaker A:If you want more information about our church or you're interested in the next step, you can go to heavenorthchurch.org Otherwise, we look forward to being with you next time at the Heaven Earth Church podcast.
