Episode 20
ON FIRE! Pentecost (A Sunday Conversation with Pastor Ross Stackhouse)
The HeavenEarth Church Podcast Exists to Amplify The Conversation Happening at HeavenEarth Church.
This conversation centers around the vision to be a church that make a lasting impact in our community by building relationships with all kinds of folks, helping people know and live like Jesus together.
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Takeaways:
- Heaven Earth Church is dedicated to embracing individuals who often feel marginalized by traditional religious institutions.
- The essence of our mission is to meet people where they are and honor their unique stories.
- In every human narrative lies a reflection of God's divine story, which we seek to uncover together.
- Participants in our community often share experiences of rediscovering faith amidst feelings of being misfits.
- The podcast provides a platform for individuals to express their personal journeys and spiritual struggles.
- We emphasize the importance of being patient and enduring through the darker times in life, trusting in God's presence.
Links referenced in this episode:
Transcript
Welcome to Heaven Earth Church.
Speaker A:My name is Ross Stackhouse.
Speaker A:I'm the founding pastor of Heaven Earth Church.
Speaker A:From the beginning, our heart was to be a church for people who don't fit neatly into church.
Speaker A:Our heart is to meet people where they are, to learn their stories, to honor their stories.
Speaker A:Because in every human story is God's story.
Speaker A:In this podcast, you'll hear more about the people who now call Heaven Earth Church home.
Speaker A:Their stories, in many cases of misfits who are discovering or rediscovering faith.
Speaker B:If you want to know more about.
Speaker A:Us, you can go to heavenorthchurch.org Otherwise, we invite you now into the story.
Speaker C:Hello, good people.
Speaker C:Brad Miller here, the producer of the Heaven Earth Church podcast.
Speaker C:One of the main benefits of being a part of the Heaven Earth Church community is our Sunday morning conversations taught by founding pastor Ross Stackhouse.
Speaker C:You can watch and participate in the Sunday morning conversation this Sunday morning, 9:30am Eastern time at YouTube.com heavenerthchurch.
Speaker C:The audio version of the Sunday morning conversation is available here on the podcast, which you can find at Apple Podcasts, Spotify and on the website, which is heavenarthchurch.org let's now join Heaven Earth Church pastor Ross Stackhouse with the message on Fire Pentecostal.
Speaker B:Okay, let's pray and then let's find out what the heck this is.
Speaker B:What's going on up here today?
Speaker B:I'm not sure.
Speaker B:Moment of silence.
Speaker B:First, let's practice stillness and silence together.
Speaker B:Let's revolt against the busyness and hurriedness of our culture and be quiet and still for a minute.
Speaker B:Foreign.
Speaker B:Anoint us with your holy fire God.
Speaker B:As we sang today, let us become more aware of your presence.
Speaker B:If I asked you to be here today, it would be silly.
Speaker B:Because of your heart and your grace.
Speaker B:You beat us to this place, so help us to be aware of you here.
Speaker B:In Jesus name, amen.
Speaker B:So my sorry, we're going to have to go without a stool today because there's something in the way.
Speaker B:So bear with me.
Speaker B:While it might be throwing you off, I'm going to stand up and talk today.
Speaker B:Is everybody all right?
Speaker B:You good?
Speaker B:I don't know if you know it, but a lot of other preacher types do this all the time.
Speaker B:So a few years ago, several years ago, I.
Speaker B:I like to do a pack in camp at Shade State Park.
Speaker B:Anybody ever been to Shades?
Speaker B:Ever done the pack in tent like so you go about two, two and a half miles in with your gear and then you set up and you, you, you do your thing.
Speaker B:So I tell My nephew at the time, who's not much experienced in wilderness life, he's like, I want to go camping.
Speaker B:I was like, do you want to do, like, this kind of camping, or, like, we drive up and then set up a tent kind of camping?
Speaker B:He's like, I want to do that kind of camping.
Speaker B:So the way it works at Shades is you can let them know in advance that you need firewood out at your site so you don't have to carry firewood two, three miles in.
Speaker B:So I have a tradition when I do, like, pack camping.
Speaker B:This might sound gross to you, but, like, I love to roast bratwurst as, like, my celebration that I made it and got camp set up and then eat those at the.
Speaker B:So I got those packed in my camp, and I'm like, dude, wait till we get there and have this.
Speaker B:This is the glorious pinnacle of this.
Speaker B:This hike we've got.
Speaker B:All we have to eat for the entire, like, the night for breakfast is Brworth stone ground mustard and some buns.
Speaker B:That's it.
Speaker B:That's our dinner.
Speaker B:That's our midnight stack.
Speaker B:That's breakfast.
Speaker B:I'm good.
Speaker B:So we hike in.
Speaker B:Great hike.
Speaker B:It starts raining, which, you know, is unfortunate.
Speaker B:I'm like, ah, that's fine.
Speaker B:I'm not worried.
Speaker B:Well, we get there, and bummer.
Speaker B:The.
Speaker B:The firewood that they gave to us was completely soaked.
Speaker B:Clearly not just from this rain that happened.
Speaker B:Like, they clearly kept it out somewhere.
Speaker B:So, like, it was like, hey, let's get this firewood as wet as we can get it and, like, really give this guy, these guys, a survival challenge.
Speaker B:And I'm like.
Speaker B:I'm trying not to show my nephew that.
Speaker B:I'm actually a little bit, like, not worried, but, like, it's gonna be a while.
Speaker B:So, like, I'm like, hey, man, don't worry about this.
Speaker B:I've done this a thousand times.
Speaker B:This is fine, you know?
Speaker B:And so I'm working hard to, like, kind of strip down some of this firewood, like, to get, like, to get to some dry.
Speaker B:I am working on this fire and working on this fire and working on it.
Speaker B:My nephew, I see him finally sitting over there doing this.
Speaker B:He's asleep.
Speaker B:I've ruined camping for his life.
Speaker B:I've taught him, like, this is what camping is like.
Speaker B:And we just kind of sat there, wet, frustrated, hungry, let down, and some of us are experiencing faith just like that.
Speaker B:Just like that.
Speaker B:You've been traveling for a while.
Speaker B:Maybe you've been traveling with some optimism, and you keep trying to draw from the depths for hope.
Speaker B:You keep trying to find like, optimism in this journey and it's harder and harder to come by.
Speaker B:And even when you've gotten to your quote unquote destination, whatever that was, there was no warmth, no light, and you just didn't have the skills or the strength anymore to keep trying to build it.
Speaker B:And to you, that is life.
Speaker B:Anyone with me?
Speaker B:You ever been there for us?
Speaker B:The hardest thing about being human, the hardest thing sometimes is that perception is reality.
Speaker B:How we perceive things to be for us is how things are.
Speaker B:And we are so like that is one of the hardest, hardest things about being human.
Speaker B:Our perception is a gift.
Speaker B:Our senses are a gift.
Speaker B:All is gift from God.
Speaker B:And yet those can be the very things that distort our reality about how things are.
Speaker B:So let me stop and ask you a question.
Speaker B:If you were to dig into your life for a minute.
Speaker B:How are you struggling today with that perception is reality problem?
Speaker B:Here's what I mean by that.
Speaker B:If you were to dig in, like what, what have you made a reality in your mind?
Speaker B:Like, this is just how life is and it's based on perception for you.
Speaker B:You've been through an experience.
Speaker B:You've been through something where you, you perceived something, you, you experienced something.
Speaker B:It was real, the experience was real.
Speaker B:A lot of your perception was, was real.
Speaker B:It wasn't wrong.
Speaker B:But now you've made that into like how you think life really is.
Speaker B:Can you think of any examples of that in your life?
Speaker B:Yes.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:The inner critic.
Speaker B:Anybody got an inner critic that's always keeping them company?
Speaker B:There you go.
Speaker B:That's a great example of how that inner critic, the voice of shame, can determine our reality.
Speaker B:Right?
Speaker B:Especially, especially folks when we're, we're confronting grief, loss coming out of trauma.
Speaker B:Woo.
Speaker B:Trauma makes can make some of the most empathetic, strongest, most wonderful people in the world.
Speaker B:But healing from trauma and not like carrying the shame with you from the trauma is tough.
Speaker B:Anybody else?
Speaker B:Perception is reality.
Speaker B:You made something, an experience, a perception that you gathered or been struggling with your reality and it stays with you.
Speaker B:See for Steve.
Speaker B:So he.
Speaker B:Steve, man, looks like we got to vote for inner critic.
Speaker B:That person that's the false self running the show saying, you're a.
Speaker B:Gosh, you are such a screw up.
Speaker B:What'd you say?
Speaker B:Yeah, sorry.
Speaker B:That voice is wrong.
Speaker B:Steve.
Speaker B:I'm just playing back what you said, brother.
Speaker B:Did I deliver that line a little too well.
Speaker B:Sorry.
Speaker B:Anybody else?
Speaker B:Debbie said.
Speaker B:Debbie talked about how her mother is in at Otterbein senior living facility in Franklin and she feels she loves Spending time with her mother.
Speaker B:She wants to spend time with her mother.
Speaker B:But constantly there's a voice saying, you're not doing enough.
Speaker B:You are not doing enough.
Speaker B:And sometimes she'll come home and her lovely spouse Brad will innocently say, hey, you weren't gone very long.
Speaker B:And in a sense.
Speaker B:But she internalizes that because the critic, the.
Speaker B:The false self is driving her life.
Speaker B:Not that true, refined, ignited Holy spirit life.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:So Jason's wrestling with.
Speaker B:For a long time.
Speaker B:He was a stay at home dad and really embraced that role.
Speaker B:What a fabulous role.
Speaker B:Jim Wallace, who was the founder of Sojourners, I believe he's the founder.
Speaker B:I once heard him say, jim, this is an organization that's doing justice work, an evangelical organization doing hardcore social justice work, all over advocacy work.
Speaker B:He said, the most important thing many of us will do, it's not the only thing.
Speaker B:So if you haven't had children, that's okay.
Speaker B:But he said, the most important mission many of us will ever fulfill is being a mother or father.
Speaker B:So Jason had this.
Speaker B:He embraced this role, but now he's got these conflicting voices, like, hey, dude, because his kids are out, he's what we call label empty nester.
Speaker B:Time to make money.
Speaker B:What do you do with that?
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:All right.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:So that's a great example of, like, when others project expectations onto us.
Speaker B:PT was the tallest kid in his grade up to 10th grade.
Speaker B:So people are like, that guy must be great at basketball.
Speaker B:And so they kept picking him, thinking, like, this guy's gonna be it.
Speaker B:He makes one basket in eight years.
Speaker B:So other people's expectations of us can definitely determine our sense of reality.
Speaker B:So are you wondering what these are about yet?
Speaker B:Do you know?
Speaker B:I'm not sure I know yet.
Speaker B:I think I'm gonna figure it out.
Speaker B:I'll figure it out as we go today.
Speaker B:It's just something I had in my head that I'm trusting God will work out as we get going.
Speaker B:First of all, Amanda Ott, wherever you are, look away.
Speaker B:All right?
Speaker B:Because she is an artist.
Speaker B:This is not art, people.
Speaker B:The graceful situation that we are in.
Speaker B:Oh, boy.
Speaker B:I have no idea how this is going to go, folks.
Speaker B:So that is the graceful situation we are in.
Speaker B:Oh, maybe you over there can't see it.
Speaker B:When we were made.
Speaker B:When we were made.
Speaker B:In the Methodist world, we call it prevenient grace.
Speaker B:Doesn't that sound like a lot of fun?
Speaker B:It shows you went to school.
Speaker B:It means that God is gifting you things like continually gracefully, when you are completely unaware of it, when you Are disinterested.
Speaker B:When you are running away, God is like going after you.
Speaker B:So when we were made, it's a wonderful thing.
Speaker B:God said, let us make humankind in our image.
Speaker B:And so like that right there.
Speaker B:There's nothing you can do about, is there?
Speaker B:Always and forever.
Speaker B:Sorry, folks.
Speaker B:Over here.
Speaker B:Matt.
Speaker B:There's nothing you can do to change this.
Speaker B:Not a thing by grace.
Speaker B:This is the reality.
Speaker B:His image is you.
Speaker B:We've talked about this recently.
Speaker B:Yes.
Speaker B:And even when one thing that the.
Speaker B:So there was this period of time in history called the Reformations started in, like, the 16th century.
Speaker B:We're not going to have class today, so relax.
Speaker B:All right?
Speaker B:But some of the reformers.
Speaker B:No, excuse me.
Speaker B:All the reformers like John Calvin.
Speaker B:Good dude, actually.
Speaker B:He gets.
Speaker B:He gets a bad rap even by people don't like him.
Speaker B:John Calvin was doing, like, health care from the church in the 16th century.
Speaker B:Remember that about him?
Speaker B:I don't like his theology.
Speaker B:No pause.
Speaker B:I dislike most of his theology, but it kind of goes back to like, Jesus is like, what are you doing with what you believe?
Speaker B:When I look at what he was doing with what he believes, I'm like, his theology was all right, but all these reformers said, like, man, here's our conclusion about humankind.
Speaker B:Humankind is totally depraved.
Speaker B:Can someone look on their phone and get a dictionary definition of depraved real quick?
Speaker B:I'm dead serious.
Speaker B:I need it.
Speaker B:Because it's the word they loved.
Speaker B:They believe everybody was on board with this idea of total depravity.
Speaker B:Go ahead, Ashley.
Speaker B:Hold on, hold on.
Speaker B:Make immoral or wicked.
Speaker B:Make immoral or wicked.
Speaker B:So that's the verb.
Speaker B:Morally corrupt or wicked.
Speaker B:The reformers were agreed on this.
Speaker B:Luther, like the Lutheran Church.
Speaker B:Are you with me, Luther?
Speaker B:Calvin.
Speaker B:Later on, a guy by the name of John Wesley, who founded the Methodist movement.
Speaker B:They believed everybody totally depraved in that great.
Speaker B:Depraved.
Speaker B:Depraved.
Speaker B:You especially depraved.
Speaker B:Right, Steve?
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:It's a joke, bro.
Speaker B:I love you, man.
Speaker B:Here's where Wesley was different.
Speaker B:So I stand here in this guy's legacy.
Speaker B:Prevenient grace.
Speaker B:A lot of these people might have communicated the message that because we're totally depraved, this little flickering flame has gone out.
Speaker B:Humankind, Wesley said, no, it is not.
Speaker B:This little flame that was planted at creation is still there in every humankind and all of humankind.
Speaker B:There's a pilot light waiting to roar in every human person.
Speaker B:There's nothing you can do about it, except there's Everything you can do about it because you're not meant.
Speaker B:This is beautiful.
Speaker B:For some folks, they don't know this, and their.
Speaker B:Their reality is this.
Speaker B:This is as good as life gets.
Speaker B:And this is pretty good because God's image.
Speaker B:Image is in us.
Speaker B:That's pretty good, right?
Speaker B:Dave, if the least that you have is God's image in you and this pilot light in you, that's not bad.
Speaker B:It's okay.
Speaker B:But that's not all you're meant to be.
Speaker B:Are you with me still?
Speaker B:Every human being, in fact, is destined.
Speaker B:Oh, Lord, help us.
Speaker B:Give me a minute.
Speaker B:Our destiny is to be drenched in the Holy Spirit.
Speaker B:To not be a pilot light, but to roar, to be fully ignited.
Speaker B:Like, this ain't bad.
Speaker B:It's not bad, but this is what we're meant for.
Speaker B:For every sinner saint that I've known, including myself, there's life before this and there's life after this.
Speaker B:It happened in me for.
Speaker B: In: Speaker B:For me.
Speaker B:I was.
Speaker B:This was growing in me.
Speaker B:Like, this isn't static.
Speaker B:Like, one day you're this and then you're that.
Speaker B:It was actually growing for me.
Speaker B:Like this was happening.
Speaker B:I didn't totally know it, but it was happening.
Speaker B:But then one day when I was in depression and darkness and despair, man, I think it's Mary Oliver.
Speaker B:She writes a poem about how the darkness is a gift.
Speaker B:It ain't a gift that I want, but I can't.
Speaker B:I can't deny it.
Speaker B:When I was in the darkness, searching for God in the darkness, in depression and panic attacks and, like, what is my life purpose?
Speaker B:Life as I thought it was going to be is over.
Speaker B:That was my perception.
Speaker B:I'm dying.
Speaker B:Literally.
Speaker B:That was my perception.
Speaker B:And I'm reading the scriptures not so I can be a smarter Christian or pass all the tests or get the doctrines right.
Speaker B:I'm reading the scriptures to live.
Speaker B:And then as I'm sobbing in a car, Ross, we've heard this story.
Speaker B:Get over it.
Speaker B:It's my this.
Speaker B:But funny enough for me, it was a whisper in my ear.
Speaker B:Ross.
Speaker B:I was reading John, I am the vine and you are the branches.
Speaker B:Abide in me, and I will abide in you.
Speaker B:Anyone who is apart from me can do nothing.
Speaker B:What was he saying to me?
Speaker B:Ross, you can't have one foot in the vine and one foot out.
Speaker B:We're over here.
Speaker B:You're still manicuring and building up your ego.
Speaker B:And over here is religious Ross.
Speaker B:You got religious Ross and you got cocktail party cool.
Speaker B:Ross.
Speaker B:Hey, let me tell you what I Learned in Greek today.
Speaker B:Give it up.
Speaker B:Stop trying to climb two ladders, kick over the ladders and surrender.
Speaker B:And then this happened.
Speaker B:And now I'm here.
Speaker B:My only goal in life is to help you be there.
Speaker B:That's it.
Speaker B:I hope.
Speaker B:When I die, I've spent my time doing that.
Speaker B:First for my wife, then my kids, and then you, my people.
Speaker B:This isn't bad.
Speaker B:It's not bad.
Speaker B:But Jesus said in Acts 1:8, after he'd spent three years, this was growing.
Speaker B:They were getting closer to that.
Speaker B:But even after three years, what was the disciples perception after three years, after three years of being right next to the guy, what was their perception?
Speaker B:Now is the time where Jesus storms the gates of Jerusalem and then Rome and we win this thing back by force.
Speaker B:Come on, thunderbolt Jesus.
Speaker B:Strike him down.
Speaker B:The Acts 1:6.
Speaker B:Acts chapter one is now the time, Jesus, where you're going to restore the kingdom to Israel.
Speaker B:He goes, I'm leaving.
Speaker B:But you, you will receive power when the Holy Spirit comes on onto you.
Speaker B:Comes to you.
Speaker B:And you will be my witnesses.
Speaker B:This isn't cocktail party cool, Ross.
Speaker B:I think this matters.
Speaker B:The word in that original language for that witness is martyr.
Speaker B:We get the English word martyr from it.
Speaker B:These guys signed up knowing that to do this meant there was gonna be some suffering.
Speaker B:There are going to be some dark nights, but the fire is always with you in the dark night.
Speaker B:And then there's life before this and there's life after it.
Speaker B:Acts Chapter two.
Speaker B:They're sitting in a room.
Speaker B:All these trade people who are uneducated.
Speaker B:They can't read, they can't write.
Speaker B:They've been following Jesus for three years.
Speaker B:Maybe their perception is we were wrong.
Speaker B:We followed this guy around, he died, he's leaving.
Speaker B:We were wrong.
Speaker B:We're idiots.
Speaker B:We're the same screw ups that we always thought we were.
Speaker B:And then boom, they're sitting in a house.
Speaker B:And that happens.
Speaker B:So maybe your perception is today.
Speaker B:This isn't happening quick enough for me in my own prayer time recently, friends, the word that is coming to me.
Speaker B:I don't know if it's my mind, I don't know if it's the Holy Spirit, but patience, Ross, we live in a culture that despises patience.
Speaker B:Stay the course.
Speaker B:So, okay, I think I'm done after this story.
Speaker B:I was sitting there with my nephew, Shade State Park.
Speaker B:He's asleep.
Speaker B:He's decided camping is for the birds.
Speaker B:This is awful.
Speaker B:Then finally, about two to three hours in, the fire started.
Speaker B:And then it got hotter and hotter, such it didn't matter what.
Speaker B:We.
Speaker B:We could have put the wettest piece of wood in there.
Speaker B:It burned anyways.
Speaker B:And then you know what we did?
Speaker B:I already told you.
Speaker B:Bratwurst, stone, ground mustard, bro.
Speaker B:It hit pretty good, okay?
Speaker B:Our lives are like that.
Speaker B:Some.
Speaker B:Some of you have, for good reason, have given up.
Speaker B:Because the fire isn't starting.
Speaker B:Because it's wet and it's dark and you're hungry and you've been traveling so darn long, you've been reaching for optimism.
Speaker B:It's gone.
Speaker B:There's none left.
Speaker B:Come back.
Speaker B:There's nothing you can do about this.
Speaker B:This is in you.
Speaker B:His image is inside you.
Speaker B:He has destined you to be full of his very presence.
Speaker B:Not some force or energy.
Speaker B:The very presence of God.
Speaker B:The brilliant, illuminating, glorious presence of God that ignites your gifts that you have like nobody else.
Speaker B:You see it every day, every time Joanna and I lead.
Speaker B:You should see us when we're practicing because we're so different.
Speaker B:Joanna wants to do worship this way.
Speaker B:I've got it this way.
Speaker B:And I'm like, oh, man, not that song again.
Speaker B:Because she likes this song.
Speaker B:But you know why?
Speaker B:She is an evangelist at her heart.
Speaker B:I'm not.
Speaker B:I've watched as her life has gone from this to this.
Speaker B:Oh, praise God.
Speaker B:What a blessing to me and all of you.
Speaker B:I've been watching this happen in your lives.
Speaker B:You are such a blessing to me.
Speaker B:Such a blessing.
Speaker B:So let us go camping together, okay?
Speaker B:We'll ask Jesus to lead us.
Speaker B:And let us ask him to help us endure the night until the fire grows.
Speaker B:Okay?
Speaker B:Let's pray.
Speaker B:Just wake us up, Lord.
Speaker B:Where there is trauma, we ask for healing.
Speaker B:Grief and loss, comfort, disillusionment.
Speaker B:Give us redirection, renewed purpose and energy.
Speaker B:Bring us back to life with your very presence dwelling inside us, creating us.
Speaker B:Pure hearts, renewing us.
Speaker B:Steadfast spirits.
Speaker B:In the name of Jesus, amen.
Speaker C:Thank you for participating in the conversation happening at Heaven Earth Church.
Speaker C:Your next opportunity to do so live is this Sunday morning, 9:30am Eastern Time, either at the main campus at 309 East Main in Whiteland, Indiana, or online at YouTube Live.
Speaker C:That's@YouTube.com heavenerthchurch.
Speaker C:The audio podcast is always available at Apple Podcast and on Spotify.
Speaker C:You can help others find out about the Heaven Earth Church podcast by going to Apple Podcast and or Spotify and leaving a five star rating and your review instructions on how to do just that and links are in the show notes.
Speaker C:You can always find out more by going to the church website heavenearthchurch.org we.
Speaker A:Want to thank you for spending time with us today.
Speaker A:My name is Ross Stackhouse, the pastor to Heaven Earth Church, and you may think out there that your story is over, but in fact your faith story may may just be beginning.
Speaker A:If you want more information about our church or you're interested in the next step, you can go to heavenorthchurch.org otherwise we look forward to being with you next time at the Heaven Earth Church podcast.
Speaker B:Sa.
